disinformation

[Yogi]

At what point should an MP get prosecuted for deliberately giving disinformation?
Lying simply to discredit a good organization is despicable. 
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/1270320...-sentiment

[king1]

looks to me like he just stated what he read on the website, and from the link you posted there were issues with racism in that organisation, so I can't really agree he is "deliberately giving disinformation", and no doubt what he read has been removed by now...

From what I read of their position statement they just seem to be a bunch of farmers unhappy with the current governments direction. It wouldn't be the first time someone tried to discredit someone else, both directions in this case...

[Yogi]

looks to me like he just stated what he read on the website, and from the link you posted there were issues with racism in that organisation, so I can't really agree he is "deliberately giving disinformation", and no doubt what he read has been removed by now...

From what I read of their position statement they just seem to be a bunch of farmers unhappy with the current governments direction.  It wouldn't be the first time someone tried to discredit someone else, both directions in this case...

 This is the guy representing rural development saying discusting things like he did about his constituents.
The irony is one of the things groundswell is protesting about is the government cutting of Philippine workers. How does that make the movement racist? Also they have been pro vax from day one so how does that make them anti vax. 
You claim that because some anti vaxers have posted on their site it makes them anti vax. Anti vaxers have placed posts on all sorts of media including probably Labour MPS so does that make that MP an anti vaxer if that happens?

[harm_less]

Groundswell's real problem is that any protest held lately decends into a rent-a-mob mentality and I suspect GS's website and/or Facebook reflected the same before a purge prompted by the recent fuss with Nash.
From their previous protest:

And those are quite tame compared to some I remember seeing.

[king1]

that's not a good look.

[Orthelia]

Most farmers are not anti-vaxers but they are against what has being enforced on them by
all the unworkable implementations the water issue is just one of them.

This is why GS was incubated from

[Yogi]

Groundswell's real problem is that any protest held lately decends into a rent-a-mob mentality and I suspect GS's website and/or Facebook reflected the same before a purge prompted by the recent fuss with Nash.
From their previous protest:

And those are quite tame compared to some I remember seeing. 

So as an administrator of this site you are saying everyone who posts something dumb or anti government that they represent you and your forum?

[king1]

the top left photo could have been worded better, that just screams racism.

Personally I would like to see the use of english translations where Maori names are used, so I at least know what it says

[Lilith7]

While Groundswell may have some valid points, to be protesting when this country is struggling to cope with a pandemic was never going to be a good look.

And if the racist comments aren't swiftly stamped out, together with the childish claims of a 'communist PM' then that well may damage any credibility they might have.

[king1]

Groundswell's real problem is that any protest held lately decends into a rent-a-mob mentality and I suspect GS's website and/or Facebook reflected the same before a purge prompted by the recent fuss with Nash.
From their previous protest:

And those are quite tame compared to some I remember seeing. 

So as an administrator of this site you are saying everyone who posts something dumb or anti government that they represent you and your forum?

I wouldn't go that far, but I would say that it creates an association between that message and the organisation/platform in which it is posted.  Enough of those associations  will tend to frame the organisation/platform as being associated with that message

[harm_less]

Groundswell's real problem is that any protest held lately decends into a rent-a-mob mentality and I suspect GS's website and/or Facebook reflected the same before a purge prompted by the recent fuss with Nash.
From their previous protest:

And those are quite tame compared to some I remember seeing. 

So as an administrator of this site you are saying everyone who posts something dumb or anti government that they represent you and your forum?

As a moderator (not admin) I help keep the content on this forum civil, factual and essentially legal. Groundswell perhaps didn't do a good enough job of doing so in their online content and have been pulled up on it.

[Praktica]

I see someone is trying to import NZ Issues' culture wars.

[Yogi]

While Groundswell may have some valid points, to be protesting when this country is struggling to cope with a pandemic was never going to be a good look.

And if the racist comments aren't swiftly stamped out, together with the childish claims of a 'communist PM' then that well may damage any credibility they might have.

  This is the groundswell code of conduct. 
It has nothing to do with race or anti vax so why would a politician say such a thing. 

https://www.motherofallprotests.nz/code-of-conduct

[nzoomed]

Most farmers are not anti-vaxers  but they are against what has being enforced on them by
all the unworkable implementations the water issue is just one of them.

This is why GS was incubated from

Agreed, and to many people, the whole three waters proposal does scream of communism to many.
More and more rights and freedoms are being taken away from farmers and same applies to townies too for that matter. 
While it's debatable whether it's communism or not, if people feel that way, it's their freedom to express their concerns. I know a few who feel this is the way the while world is heading, not just NZ.

Farmers are the backbone of this country, and as more have moved to the cities, our connection to the land has sadly dropped away.
I think GS is essentially an overdue release of anger, mostly from farmers who have had a guts full of decades of tougher and tougher regulations.

And who pays for all of this? Us the consumers who have to pay more for food.

[Lilith7]

While Groundswell may have some valid points, to be protesting when this country is struggling to cope with a pandemic was never going to be a good look.

And if the racist comments aren't swiftly stamped out, together with the childish claims of a 'communist PM' then that well may damage any credibility they might have.

  This is the groundswell code of conduct. 
It has nothing to do with race or anti vax so why would a politician say such a thing. 

https://www.motherofallprotests.nz/code-of-conduct

I'm going by the images included in a post about  an earlier protest; there were both racist comments & one about not wanting a 'communist PM.'

[king1]

Most farmers are not anti-vaxers  but they are against what has being enforced on them by
all the unworkable implementations the water issue is just one of them.

This is why GS was incubated from

Agreed, and to many people, the whole three waters proposal does scream of communism to many.

A key difference is a communist government probably wouldn't recompense the affected parties which our elected government is doing.
I have no problem with it to be honest, most councils have done a crap job of running/maintaining it...

[Praktica]

Most farmers are not anti-vaxers  but they are against what has being enforced on them by
all the unworkable implementations the water issue is just one of them.

This is why GS was incubated from

Agreed, and to many people, the whole three waters proposal does scream of communism to many.
More and more rights and freedoms are being taken away from farmers and same applies to townies too for that matter. 
While it's debatable whether it's communism or not, if people feel that way, it's their freedom to express their concerns. I know a few who feel this is the way the while world is heading, not just NZ.

Farmers are the backbone of this country, and as more have moved to the cities, our connection to the land has sadly dropped away.
I think GS is essentially an overdue release of anger, mostly from farmers who have had a guts full of decades of tougher and tougher regulations.

And who pays for all of this? Us the consumers who have to pay more for food.

I've seen people opposing 3 waters because they see it as a neoliberal attempt to prepare water infrastructure for privatisation.

[king1]

Agreed, and to many people, the whole three waters proposal does scream of communism to many.
More and more rights and freedoms are being taken away from farmers and same applies to townies too for that matter. 
While it's debatable whether it's communism or not, if people feel that way, it's their freedom to express their concerns. I know a few who feel this is the way the while world is heading, not just NZ.

Farmers are the backbone of this country, and as more have moved to the cities, our connection to the land has sadly dropped away.
I think GS is essentially an overdue release of anger, mostly from farmers who have had a guts full of decades of tougher and tougher regulations.

And who pays for all of this? Us the consumers who have to pay more for food.

I've seen people opposing 3 waters because they see it as a neoliberal attempt to prepare water infrastructure for privatisation.

That would be bad news of course, pretty sure that isn't a labour agenda though...

[Lilith7]

I've seen people opposing 3 waters because they see it as a neoliberal attempt to prepare water infrastructure for privatisation.

That would be bad news of course, pretty sure that isn't a labour agenda though...

If that's what they were aiming for then i think they'd quickly find themselves in trouble.

[harm_less]

Agreed, and to many people, the whole three waters proposal does scream of communism to many.

A key difference is a communist government probably wouldn't recompense the affected parties which our elected government is doing.
I have no problem with it to be honest, most councils have done a crap job of running/maintaining it...

Councils nationwide has major infrastructure neglect issues going on. They typically don't have the clout to push back against industry lobby groups or ratepayer pushback and so necessary maintenance and development doesn't get done, or is implemented to the (financial) advantage of those who have the loudest voice and deepest pockets. By transferring the control of essential infrastructure to central government a more well balanced approach can be implemented to the advantage of all sectors of the population evenly.

The continual references to communism by protesters is ill founded in almost all cases and is obviously being voiced by those who have never witnessed communist rule first hand. Under a communist regime their arguments would be shut down very quickly with those voicing them being taken out of circulation. We are a very long way from that degree of control.