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Fish "bowls"
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28-01-2022, 01:02 PM
Just saw this https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zeala...bowls.html. Every now and again it comes up. On one level it makes sense if all "bowls" are small and all are used to keep goldfish but bowls can be big, and even small bowls can be used to keep small fish. If the SPCA want to be credible, they should be clearer what they mean, and correct the errors of fact in what they are sending out in the press release.
28-01-2022, 05:27 PM
never gave it much thought
serious fish people go to great lengths to recreate the most natural environment for their very valuable pets. i always thought the samurai fighters were kept in very confined bowls a 7cm fish in a bowl the size of a tennis ball seems mean
So if you disappear out of view You know I will never say goodbye
28-01-2022, 08:07 PM
I certainly don't dispute that you can't put a 30cm goldfish into a 30cm bowl, but you can put a few 3cm white cloud minnows into a 30cm bowl so long as you keep the water clean. And I used to have a couple of angelfish in my 50 litre bowl. It was about a metre across and a very beautiful aquarium.
The Siamese fighters are able to be kept in jars because they are air breathers and it's a matter of practicality because they can't be put together in a tank. And yes, it's also unfair on the fish, but usually only temporary in the pet shop. That's a good example of why banning "bowls" without thinking it through is wrong. Ban bowls, but not jars? 
28-01-2022, 08:49 PM
No. No. No. No.
I have kept betta, known as Siamese Fighting fish, and trust me, they are intelligent creatures, who can not only look extraordinarily beautiful, but can recognise their owners, play with toys, nurture their young, and live with other fish. They need room. Yes they are air breathers and can put up with gross conditions, but they are also sensitive to changes in their environment, subject to disease and the genetic results of bad breeding habits, and small jars are a cruel and appalling way to keep such beautiful creatures. I wish education was part of pet keeping. Then we wouldn't have such idiocy as that dreadful tv ad with the goldfish. Believe it or not even goldfish have feelings. And memories. To think otherwise is species arrogance on our part. If it is alive, it deserves respect. About time we learned that lesson, before the planet teaches us the hard way.
I thought the government was going to ban fishing when I read spca wants goverment to ban fish... and its not like they wouldn,t except one has a spouse that does fishing.
(28-01-2022, 08:49 PM)Oh_hunnihunni Wrote: No. No. No. No. Who decides if your a left wing nut job or right wing?
28-01-2022, 09:10 PM
(28-01-2022, 08:49 PM)Oh_hunnihunni Wrote: No. No. No. No. The Siamese fighter males will kill each other if kept together. Females are fine but not so colourful. You could possibly get away with more than one male in a huge tank, but in the shop situation at best they would end up with ragged fins, so unfortunately do have to be separated out until sold. I'm fully with you on everything else you said though, especially that stupid ad. My point in the first post is about the lack of definition of bowl. Small bowls and small jars are as bad as each other, so why just ban bowls? Large bowls are just another form of tank, which may or may not be big enough for what people want to put into them.
29-01-2022, 05:47 AM
yep, too broad a description. could be an itty bitty bowl or could be superbowl
So if you disappear out of view You know I will never say goodbye
29-01-2022, 06:24 AM
Thing is we humans have bred these fish for their aggression, and their finnage, so we have created our own problem. Then to top that cruelty off we force them to live in tiny blank places so they can be sold off to make a profit for the sellers. So along comes an ignorant buyer who thinks 'pretty', buys one, sticks it in a small container with a plant in the top - because that's what they saw on Pinterest, and the fish either goes mad or gets sick and dies.
But hey, it was pretty for a while. And it is only a fish after all. They don't feel anything do they? Not as if they are alive... Grrrrrrrrrr...
perhaps the measure should not be the size of the bowl, but the amount of water per fish?
if you want to keep fish in your bathtub then go hard. i was told those bettas can live in a dirty puddle which seems doable. a dirty puddle the size of a saucer maybe not. am i allowed to say that we used to lip hook goldfish to use as live bait for monster bass in California? you can buy goldfish in bait shops.
So if you disappear out of view You know I will never say goodbye
There was something they were selling in plastic bags  animal key rings or mobile phone charms turtle. lizard and i saw a goldfish the bowl is like an ocean compared with the tiny plastic bag it cant turn around in got some oxygen crystal in it and food to keep it alive but usually dies in a few weeks the cost of a burger call them a kids toy. saw it on the internet, its a bit sickening if you look at anything they do to animals just make sure pet shops dont stock little bowls and educate people.
(29-01-2022, 11:08 AM)Lucy Wrote: There was something they were selling in plastic bags  animal key rings or mobile phone charms turtle. lizard and i saw a goldfish the bowl is like an ocean compared with the tiny plastic bag it cant turn around in got some oxygen crystal in it and food to keep it alive but usually dies in a few weeks the cost of a burger call them a kids toy. saw it on the internet, its a bit sickening if you look at anything they do to animals just make sure pet shops dont stock little bowls and educate people. That really is awful. That's the kind of thing that really should be banned. Hopefully they found no market and stopped doing it. (29-01-2022, 08:06 AM)Magoo Wrote: perhaps the measure should not be the size of the bowl, but the amount of water per fish? Same as using kahawai for live bait for kingfish here. I used to feel uncomfortable about it, but have seen that the fish don't seem unduly stressed apart from the limitation of not being able to swim away. And they either get eaten instantly or let go at the end of the day. And yes, the air breathers can live in a dirty puddle in the wild. They developed that survival strategy in places where there is a great variation in water flow so in good times they thrive, and in bad times when it all nearly dries up they survive. (29-01-2022, 06:24 AM)Oh_hunnihunni Wrote: Thing is we humans have bred these fish for their aggression, and their finnage, so we have created our own problem. Then to top that cruelty off we force them to live in tiny blank places so they can be sold off to make a profit for the sellers. So along comes an ignorant buyer who thinks 'pretty', buys one, sticks it in a small container with a plant in the top - because that's what they saw on Pinterest, and the fish either goes mad or gets sick and dies. We breed them for finnage but the male fighting is their natural behaviour. The difference is that in the wild the subordiante fish can swim away. In a fish tank it's stuck with the aggressor so it has to be no more than one male to a tank. There are other fish like that too, especially if they want to breed. The pet shops should make sure buyers understand what the fish need, and I think they do. I don't often need to go in these days, but when I do, the assistant will usually start a conversation "have you had fish before...?" which is them making sure I know what I'm doing and is good.
29-01-2022, 04:11 PM
he assistant will usually start a conversation "have you had fish before...?" 
why yes, pan fried is best
So if you disappear out of view You know I will never say goodbye
 (29-01-2022, 08:06 AM)Magoo Wrote: am i allowed to say that we used to lip hook goldfish to use as live bait for monster bass in California?Apparently Koi carp can be used as bait or burley, and they're essentially overgrown goldfish.
31-01-2022, 11:17 AM
(31-01-2022, 11:11 AM)harm_less Wrote:they call these ones 'shiners' and they are differing breeds i think. i think berley is a rewarding and suitable end for a fish so insidious in its habits.(29-01-2022, 08:06 AM)Magoo Wrote: am i allowed to say that we used to lip hook goldfish to use as live bait for monster bass in California?Apparently Koi carp can be used as bait or burley, and they're essentially overgrown goldfish.
So if you disappear out of view You know I will never say goodbye
31-01-2022, 01:06 PM
Both fish are carp:
Goldfish are Carassius auratus and pretty harmless when they escape or are released into waterways, although it's best to keep them captive since they aren't native. They are mainly vegetarian and don't dig up the bottom. Koi are Cyprinus rubrofuscus and are a very serious pest with huge fines if you are caught in possession of live ones. They feed by digging up the bottom and totally destroy habitat. I would think that using fish for bait is more successful if they are the right kind for the habitat - eg fresh water fish (carp) for fresh water fishing (eg bass in the US) but use saltwater fish for saltwater fishing. I'm not sure though. I guess anything goes for berley so long as it's oily and smelly. Its main result is to encourage sharks to hang around and they aren't really fussy.
31-01-2022, 03:25 PM
the blasted barracudas follow the berley trail too.
So if you disappear out of view You know I will never say goodbye
31-01-2022, 05:51 PM
Goldfish are filthy creatures, they eat anything and poo twice their weight, you need a really good filtration system if you want clean water. Neighbour was just telling me his animal mad sister keeps a few in her farm troughs to keep the mozzies down. I had to bite my tongue. She'd be better off with minnows.
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