Pro vs anti

[king1]

Might be a little harsh but the time for pandering is over IMHO

Agreed. The science couldn't be clearer. It's now the most studied vaccine in history. Anyone holding back needs to get off social media and actually look at the facts, not a handful of idiots spouting misinformation for their own gain. Every single anti-vax argument can easily be refuted by looking at the science.

although those people will never look at facts and see them as normal people do...

[wishful thinking] What I think these peeps need to do is say to themselves bugger it, everyone else is getting vaxxed, I might be on the wrong side of this debate.  Thereby opening their minds to the possibility that their beliefs might be wrong and they might have to just take it on faith that its the right thing to do for the greater good etc... [/wishful thinking]

[videomonkey]

Agreed. The science couldn't be clearer. It's now the most studied vaccine in history. Anyone holding back needs to get off social media and actually look at the facts, not a handful of idiots spouting misinformation for their own gain. Every single anti-vax argument can easily be refuted by looking at the science.

although those people will never look at facts and see them as normal people do...

What I think these peeps need to do is say to themselves bugger it, everyone else is getting vaxxed, I might be on the wrong side of the debate.  Open themselves up to the possibility that their beliefs might be wrong (god forbid who likes doing that?) just take it on faith that its the right thing to do for the greater good etc...

Unfortunately ego tends to get in the way of changing a belief that people base their entire identities on. 

Then there's the issue of confirmation bias; finding information that backs up a belief regardless of if it's based on fact or not. 

And there's those that simply just don't like being told what to do, which is an incredibly selfish reason to not get vaccinated.

Either way.. I'm sick of it. We're letting the minority hold the entire country hostage. But it looks like we'll get to 90% eventually so it's now just a waiting game. Then we'll get our freedoms, and they won't.

[crafters_corner]

I think that our focus should be moving away from those who simply will not get the vaccines (for whatever reason), and move on to those who are vaccine hesitant. They are the ones who are probably going to be more open to getting their jabs.

I am sick to death of listening to anti vaxxers, and their pitiful excuses to not only protect themselves, but their families, friends, work colleagues, their communities, and their country as a whole. All I can say, is good luck to them, and their families.

[sarahk]

One way I can assess conflicting stories is that this government decided it's ok to abort people at full term without painkiller. 

I'd love to see the stats on those times the law has been used.

How many were because the mother had decided against having a baby?
How many were because the fetus wasn't viable?
How many were because the mother's life was at risk?

The very idea of being forced to carry a dead or dying fetus to term is abhorrent. The "abortion" is induced labour at that late stage and is harder than normal labour because the baby isn't helping things along. Even if you get to term if the baby is dead you'll still need to be induced. 

I doubt there is a Government anywhere, at any time, that takes pleasure out of allowing late-term inductions/abortions but they take the medical advice about the healthcare requirements of (primarily) women seriously.

[kiwi]

Secondly, wtf are you talking about, re abortions??
You have some very warped thinking.

What I'm talking about is I can't trust such people.

---

How many were because the fetus wasn't viable?
How many were because the mother's life was at risk?

The very idea of being forced to carry a dead or dying fetus to term is abhorrent. The "abortion" is induced labour at that late stage and is harder than normal labour because the baby isn't helping things along. Even if you get to term if the baby is dead you'll still need to be induced. 

I doubt there is a Government anywhere, at any time, that takes pleasure out of allowing late-term inductions/abortions but they take the medical advice about the healthcare requirements of (primarily) women seriously.

The law as it stood already allowed for abortion in such situations. But i think if we want to talk about abortion any further we need to start another thread.

By the way I'm hesitant. Not altogether anti.

[nzoomed]

I think that our focus should be moving away from those who simply will not get the vaccines (for whatever reason), and move on to those who are vaccine hesitant. They are the ones who are probably going to be more open to getting their jabs.

I am sick to death of listening to anti vaxxers, and their pitiful excuses to not only protect themselves, but their families, friends, work colleagues, their communities, and their country as a whole. All I can say, is good luck to them, and their families.

Agreed, Vaccine hesitant and anti-vax are two different things.

There is the nutjobs out there who think there are microchips in it that allows bill gates to track you down and watch every move you make using 5G tech, and then there are those who are pro-vax, having had all their shots for common diseases, but dont trust the M-RNA vaccines, but would be happy to receive novavax for example.

I believe the government is looking at bringing in a range of different vaccines to give people choice to address this, which is not a bad thing.

[king1]

I think that our focus should be moving away from those who simply will not get the vaccines (for whatever reason), and move on to those who are vaccine hesitant. They are the ones who are probably going to be more open to getting their jabs.

I am sick to death of listening to anti vaxxers, and their pitiful excuses to not only protect themselves, but their families, friends, work colleagues, their communities, and their country as a whole. All I can say, is good luck to them, and their families.

Agreed, Vaccine hesitant and anti-vax are two different things.

There is the nutjobs out there who think there are microchips in it that allows bill gates to track you down and watch every move you make using 5G tech, and then there are those who are pro-vax, having had all their shots for common diseases, but dont trust the M-RNA vaccines, but would be happy to receive novavax for example.

I believe the government is looking at bringing in a range of different vaccines to give people choice to address this, which is not a bad thing.

That depends on who you ask.  No antivaxxer is ever going to admit to it.

I think one needs to look past those labels and focus on what they post, and hence believe.  It's too easy for the antivaxxer to claim they aren't, because...

[Oh_hunnihunni]

Just get the jabs. It really is that simple.

[king1]

FYI for anyone who wants a read, this report is by the Center for Countering Digital Hate (CCDH).

The Disinformation Dozen (pdf)

[reigns]

OK we don't use birth control pills.
I personally am not keeping you in lockdown if you're in Auckland. I'm in Whangarei. And you'll be in the traffic light system soon. I'm happy to live with the restrictions on me when my region goes to the traffic light system. I am also happy to bear the consequences of COVID at home and free up a hospital bed.

It's hard to believe I'm listening to "social media" when even doctors that practice near me say this: https://player.vimeo.com/video/562110284?h=0a11a8dab7

I've also met this man: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UucTa2wY8oc

I've had every other kind of vaccine including those for overseas travel without hesitation.

One way I can assess conflicting stories is that this government decided it's ok to abort people at full term without painkiller. And they can feel pain at full term. Babies can even be born at 7 months and survive. The argument seems to be that they aren't human until they're born but after giving consideration to at which point they become human I realised it's at the point of conception. That is when they receive their human DNA. They further ruled that if an abortion fails the baby must be left to die without help. How inhumane is that? So who's the real human? The baby is judged condemned to death before having a chance to prove his or her virtue while murderers live on. So on that basis I don't trust this government.

I'm in Whangarei too. I've asked three doctors from two different Whangarei clinics about the safety and suitability of the COVID vaccine, and all of them said that they would recommend it generally for all patients but would recommend those who think they have medical concerns see their GP first. Family in Dargaville were also advised by their long-time doctor (decades long) to get the vaccine as they would both be at-risk should they catch COVID, or COVID break out in that little town. Another doctor I know from Whangarei Hospital itself is beside themselves trying to convince people to get vaccinated because the whole Northland DHB region only have 8 ICU beds. They've even admitted to being selfish; they don't want to have to work extra hard simply because a significant number of people in the region are choosing not to vaccinate for various reasons that aren't medical. I'm not medically trained but I trust these people. Some of them I've known for a long time, others just briefly. But they're doctors with current practicing licenses, certificates on the wall, and they've looked after me pretty well so far.

Dr Wojcik is a doctor and a currently practicing one but is still only one doctor so far that I've heard of up here that has voiced concerns around the vaccine. We all may have different thresholds for how we judge sources of information and perspectives but, to me, it stands to reason that one doctor's video opinion vs all of the others I've personally asked should absolutely, 99 out of 100, fall one way - and that's to the majority/consensus. If Dr Wojcik is your doctor, then I would absolutely understand if you're choosing not to vaccinate because he said so. He's your GP, and I listened to mine. But I'd also be pretty wary about getting an answer from my GP that seemed to contradict a significant majority of other doctors. That's why I also asked a bunch of docs, rather than just my normal one. I can bet that if you did the same, Dr Wojcik will still end up being the only dissenting voice.

On the point I previously mentioned, where my friend honestly believes that most peoples' reasons for not vaccinating are not medical - I agree. In fact, I would go as far as to say that if you have not specifically asked your own GP about whether the vaccine is right for you personally, then you don't have a qualified medical reason not to vaccinate. You likely have an assumption, an opinion based on general statement made by a possible qualified medical practitioner or an expert relative to the field of virology, biology or epidemiology. But a rogue doctor's opinion on Youtube doesn't apply to you specifically because that doctor doesn't know you or your medical history. Your GP does, and that's why I believe that anyone claiming a medical reason for not vaccinating who hasn't seen their GP doesn't have a legitimate medical reason.

I know a family in Dargaville where one of the parents has cancer and is having treatment. Their doctor recommended they didn't get vaccinated. Somehow, completely fucking baffling to me, the whole family has taken that advice to mean "No one in this family should get vaccinated". None of the rest of the family have specifically seen the GP for that medical opinion. They've somehow turned a doctor's concern for how the vaccine might pose a risk to an actively treated cancer patient and assumed that means that the vaccine isn't safe at all for anyone to take. Which is ironic and fucking bonkers considering how much more of a risk they pose to the parent with cancer should they get fucking COVID. Like, imagine if one of them catches it and gives it to the parent, who then dies? That just seems like 1+1=2 but they don't get it, and the refuse to see it.

Northland actually annoys me with the amount of uneducated vaccine and lockdown resistant people around here. I've had another person in Whangarei try to tell me that there are people committing suicide in MIQ but the Government keeps covering it up. Apparently the Government can't hush up stories of selfish dickheads constantly escaping MIQ as a confirmed COVID case, but is somehow managing to keep entire facilities and the families of the deceased gagged in relation to the tens of suicides that have happened in managed facilities. True story, they actually believe that that's true. For me, the Northland grapevine that managed to convince even Winston Peters, famed Son of the North, that it was Harry Tam who personally drove two Auckland sex workers up to Whangarei for some gang orgies is indicative of just how easily and wide bullshit can spread up here. A lady in the Post Office today said she knows that the hospitals are all full with vaccinated COVID patients and that it's outright tyranny that the Government is still pushing vaccines on people. Her friend is a carer for a sick elderly person and she said she's been heartbroken over having to get vaccinated to keep her job.

Not vaccinated to keep her charge safe.

Honestly, if house prices weren't so disgusting everywhere, I'd seriously consider moving out of Northland and to somewhere where I can trust people to be smarter.

[Zak410]

Here is a good, calm, friendly video that I think people being Covid vaccine hesitant should listen to, as it addresses questions about the vaccines.

22 mn video :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isP6waOEp2U

---

OK we don't use birth control pills.
I personally am not keeping you in lockdown if you're in Auckland. I'm in Whangarei. And you'll be in the traffic light system soon. I'm happy to live with the restrictions on me when my region goes to the traffic light system. I am also happy to bear the consequences of COVID at home and free up a hospital bed.

It's hard to believe I'm listening to "social media" when even doctors that practice near me say this: https://player.vimeo.com/video/562110284?h=0a11a8dab7

I've also met this man: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UucTa2wY8oc

I've had every other kind of vaccine including those for overseas travel without hesitation.

One way I can assess conflicting stories is that this government decided it's ok to abort people at full term without painkiller. And they can feel pain at full term. Babies can even be born at 7 months and survive. The argument seems to be that they aren't human until they're born but after giving consideration to at which point they become human I realised it's at the point of conception. That is when they receive their human DNA. They further ruled that if an abortion fails the baby must be left to die without help. How inhumane is that? So who's the real human? The baby is judged condemned to death before having a chance to prove his or her virtue while murderers live on. So on that basis I don't trust this government.

I'm in Whangarei too. I've asked three doctors from two different Whangarei clinics about the safety and suitability of the COVID vaccine, and all of them said that they would recommend it generally for all patients but would recommend those who think they have medical concerns see their GP first. Family in Dargaville were also advised by their long-time doctor (decades long) to get the vaccine as they would both be at-risk should they catch COVID, or COVID break out in that little town. Another doctor I know from Whangarei Hospital itself is beside themselves trying to convince people to get vaccinated because the whole Northland DHB region only have 8 ICU beds. They've even admitted to being selfish; they don't want to have to work extra hard simply because a significant number of people in the region are choosing not to vaccinate for various reasons that aren't medical. I'm not medically trained but I trust these people. Some of them I've known for a long time, others just briefly. But they're doctors with current practicing licenses, certificates on the wall, and they've looked after me pretty well so far.

Dr Wojcik is a doctor and a currently practicing one but is still only one doctor so far that I've heard of up here that has voiced concerns around the vaccine. We all may have different thresholds for how we judge sources of information and perspectives but, to me, it stands to reason that one doctor's video opinion vs all of the others I've personally asked should absolutely, 99 out of 100, fall one way - and that's to the majority/consensus. If Dr Wojcik is your doctor, then I would absolutely understand if you're choosing not to vaccinate because he said so. He's your GP, and I listened to mine. But I'd also be pretty wary about getting an answer from my GP that seemed to contradict a significant majority of other doctors. That's why I also asked a bunch of docs, rather than just my normal one. I can bet that if you did the same, Dr Wojcik will still end up being the only dissenting voice.

On the point I previously mentioned, where my friend honestly believes that most peoples' reasons for not vaccinating are not medical - I agree. In fact, I would go as far as to say that if you have not specifically asked your own GP about whether the vaccine is right for you personally, then you don't have a qualified medical reason not to vaccinate. You likely have an assumption, an opinion based on general statement made by a possible qualified medical practitioner or an expert relative to the field of virology, biology or epidemiology. But a rogue doctor's opinion on Youtube doesn't apply to you specifically because that doctor doesn't know you or your medical history. Your GP does, and that's why I believe that anyone claiming a medical reason for not vaccinating who hasn't seen their GP doesn't have a legitimate medical reason.

I know a family in Dargaville where one of the parents has cancer and is having treatment. Their doctor recommended they didn't get vaccinated. Somehow, completely fucking baffling to me, the whole family has taken that advice to mean "No one in this family should get vaccinated". None of the rest of the family have specifically seen the GP for that medical opinion. They've somehow turned a doctor's concern for how the vaccine might pose a risk to an actively treated cancer patient and assumed that means that the vaccine isn't safe at all for anyone to take. Which is ironic and fucking bonkers considering how much more of a risk they pose to the parent with cancer should they get fucking COVID. Like, imagine if one of them catches it and gives it to the parent, who then dies? That just seems like 1+1=2 but they don't get it, and the refuse to see it.

Northland actually annoys me with the amount of uneducated vaccine and lockdown resistant people around here. I've had another person in Whangarei try to tell me that there are people committing suicide in MIQ but the Government keeps covering it up. Apparently the Government can't hush up stories of selfish dickheads constantly escaping MIQ as a confirmed COVID case, but is somehow managing to keep entire facilities and the families of the deceased gagged in relation to the tens of suicides that have happened in managed facilities. True story, they actually believe that that's true. For me, the Northland grapevine that managed to convince even Winston Peters, famed Son of the North, that it was Harry Tam who personally drove two Auckland sex workers up to Whangarei for some gang orgies is indicative of just how easily and wide bullshit can spread up here. A lady in the Post Office today said she knows that the hospitals are all full with vaccinated COVID patients and that it's outright tyranny that the Government is still pushing vaccines on people. Her friend is a carer for a sick elderly person and she said she's been heartbroken over having to get vaccinated to keep her job.

Not vaccinated to keep her charge safe.

Honestly, if house prices weren't so disgusting everywhere, I'd seriously consider moving out of Northland and to somewhere where I can trust people to be smarter.

I can feel your pain, and I'm amazed by the amount of support the 'freedumb' movement have up here in Northland, including fiends, children of friends and even some family members . Most mean well, but have been 'algorithmed' by social media, imo.

[Me+Me]

Yeah I think people who are AntiVax are essentially either being very stupid or very selfish and quite possibly both.
People - it's not just about you. It's about keeping all of our society as safe as possible.
Yeah the Vax isnt perfect protection but it's good. And it's definitely much better than NO vax !
Look after your family, your kids, your loved ones, the neighbour, the stranger on the street, your workmates. Get Vaccinated and help yourself to be safer and the rest of our society also. Do the right thing and be a good citizen. And if you don't get vaccinated and catch Covid, (which you are far more likely to do), don't be like some I've read of who ask for the Vax just as they're being intubated. Doh !

[grover267]

I liken it to wearing a seatbelt. Does it stop you from having a car crash? No. Will it prevent you from being injured in a crash? No. Then why wear one? Because it significantly reduces the risk of being seriously injured and killed in the event of you being in a crash.

And that's what the covid vaccine does. It won't stop you catching it, it won't stop you spreading it, but it will REDUCE the risk of both.

[Me+Me]

although those people will never look at facts and see them as normal people do...

What I think these peeps need to do is say to themselves bugger it, everyone else is getting vaxxed, I might be on the wrong side of the debate.  Open themselves up to the possibility that their beliefs might be wrong (god forbid who likes doing that?) just take it on faith that its the right thing to do for the greater good etc...

Unfortunately ego tends to get in the way of changing a belief that people base their entire identities on. 

Then there's the issue of confirmation bias; finding information that backs up a belief regardless of if it's based on fact or not. 

And there's those that simply just don't like being told what to do, which is an incredibly selfish reason to not get vaccinated.

Either way.. I'm sick of it. We're letting the minority hold the entire country hostage. But it looks like we'll get to 90% eventually so it's now just a waiting game. Then we'll get our freedoms, and they won't.

Yes, yet I read today that apparently those who refuse the mandate and lose their jobs can pretty much go straight on the Dole.  FFS.  I disagree with that entirely.

[kiwi]

OK we don't use birth control pills.
I personally am not keeping you in lockdown if you're in Auckland. I'm in Whangarei. And you'll be in the traffic light system soon. I'm happy to live with the restrictions on me when my region goes to the traffic light system. I am also happy to bear the consequences of COVID at home and free up a hospital bed.

It's hard to believe I'm listening to "social media" when even doctors that practice near me say this: https://player.vimeo.com/video/562110284?h=0a11a8dab7

I've also met this man: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UucTa2wY8oc

I've had every other kind of vaccine including those for overseas travel without hesitation.

One way I can assess conflicting stories is that this government decided it's ok to abort people at full term without painkiller. And they can feel pain at full term. Babies can even be born at 7 months and survive. The argument seems to be that they aren't human until they're born but after giving consideration to at which point they become human I realised it's at the point of conception. That is when they receive their human DNA. They further ruled that if an abortion fails the baby must be left to die without help. How inhumane is that? So who's the real human? The baby is judged condemned to death before having a chance to prove his or her virtue while murderers live on. So on that basis I don't trust this government.

I'm in Whangarei too. I've asked three doctors from two different Whangarei clinics about the safety and suitability of the COVID vaccine, and all of them said that they would recommend it generally for all patients but would recommend those who think they have medical concerns see their GP first. Family in Dargaville were also advised by their long-time doctor (decades long) to get the vaccine as they would both be at-risk should they catch COVID, or COVID break out in that little town. Another doctor I know from Whangarei Hospital itself is beside themselves trying to convince people to get vaccinated because the whole Northland DHB region only have 8 ICU beds. They've even admitted to being selfish; they don't want to have to work extra hard simply because a significant number of people in the region are choosing not to vaccinate for various reasons that aren't medical. I'm not medically trained but I trust these people. Some of them I've known for a long time, others just briefly. But they're doctors with current practicing licenses, certificates on the wall, and they've looked after me pretty well so far.

Dr Wojcik is a doctor and a currently practicing one but is still only one doctor so far that I've heard of up here that has voiced concerns around the vaccine. We all may have different thresholds for how we judge sources of information and perspectives but, to me, it stands to reason that one doctor's video opinion vs all of the others I've personally asked should absolutely, 99 out of 100, fall one way - and that's to the majority/consensus. If Dr Wojcik is your doctor, then I would absolutely understand if you're choosing not to vaccinate because he said so. He's your GP, and I listened to mine. But I'd also be pretty wary about getting an answer from my GP that seemed to contradict a significant majority of other doctors. That's why I also asked a bunch of docs, rather than just my normal one. I can bet that if you did the same, Dr Wojcik will still end up being the only dissenting voice.

On the point I previously mentioned, where my friend honestly believes that most peoples' reasons for not vaccinating are not medical - I agree. In fact, I would go as far as to say that if you have not specifically asked your own GP about whether the vaccine is right for you personally, then you don't have a qualified medical reason not to vaccinate. You likely have an assumption, an opinion based on general statement made by a possible qualified medical practitioner or an expert relative to the field of virology, biology or epidemiology. But a rogue doctor's opinion on Youtube doesn't apply to you specifically because that doctor doesn't know you or your medical history. Your GP does, and that's why I believe that anyone claiming a medical reason for not vaccinating who hasn't seen their GP doesn't have a legitimate medical reason.

I know a family in Dargaville where one of the parents has cancer and is having treatment. Their doctor recommended they didn't get vaccinated. Somehow, completely fucking baffling to me, the whole family has taken that advice to mean "No one in this family should get vaccinated". None of the rest of the family have specifically seen the GP for that medical opinion. They've somehow turned a doctor's concern for how the vaccine might pose a risk to an actively treated cancer patient and assumed that means that the vaccine isn't safe at all for anyone to take. Which is ironic and fucking bonkers considering how much more of a risk they pose to the parent with cancer should they get fucking COVID. Like, imagine if one of them catches it and gives it to the parent, who then dies? That just seems like 1+1=2 but they don't get it, and the refuse to see it.

Northland actually annoys me with the amount of uneducated vaccine and lockdown resistant people around here. I've had another person in Whangarei try to tell me that there are people committing suicide in MIQ but the Government keeps covering it up. Apparently the Government can't hush up stories of selfish dickheads constantly escaping MIQ as a confirmed COVID case, but is somehow managing to keep entire facilities and the families of the deceased gagged in relation to the tens of suicides that have happened in managed facilities. True story, they actually believe that that's true. For me, the Northland grapevine that managed to convince even Winston Peters, famed Son of the North, that it was Harry Tam who personally drove two Auckland sex workers up to Whangarei for some gang orgies is indicative of just how easily and wide bullshit can spread up here. A lady in the Post Office today said she knows that the hospitals are all full with vaccinated COVID patients and that it's outright tyranny that the Government is still pushing vaccines on people. Her friend is a carer for a sick elderly person and she said she's been heartbroken over having to get vaccinated to keep her job.

Not vaccinated to keep her charge safe.

Honestly, if house prices weren't so disgusting everywhere, I'd seriously consider moving out of Northland and to somewhere where I can trust people to be smarter.

I have collected my medical data to take to my Dr to get his advice, as a nurse detected that my heart rate was erratic.

Just for your information, I personally know another Whangarei Dr who is anti vax and has lost his registration because of it. Also two nurses from Whangarei emergency department who have lost their jobs under the no jab no job mandate. They claim to have seen many vaccine injuries coming into the ED but that this is not getting out to the media.

I still would not take this vaccine but am resigned to the fact that I am going to get forced into it. I have people all around me who have been or felt forced into taking it. Being forced is NOT the right reason.

---

What I think these peeps need to do is say to themselves bugger it, everyone else is getting vaxxed, I might be on the wrong side of this debate.  Thereby opening their minds to the possibility that their beliefs might be wrong and they might have to just take it on faith that its the right thing to do for the greater good etc...

Doing something because everyone else is doing it is a very bad idea.

[king1]

I have collected my medical data to take to my Dr to get his advice, as a nurse detected that my heart rate was erratic.

Just for your information, I personally know another Whangarei Dr who is anti vax and has lost his registration because of it. Also two nurses from Whangarei emergency department who have lost their jobs under the no jab no job mandate. They claim to have seen many vaccine injuries coming into the ED but that this is not getting out to the media.

I still would not take this vaccine but am resigned to the fact that I am going to get forced into it. I have people all around me who have been or felt forced into taking it. Being forced is NOT the right reason.

---

What I think these peeps need to do is say to themselves bugger it, everyone else is getting vaxxed, I might be on the wrong side of this debate.  Thereby opening their minds to the possibility that their beliefs might be wrong and they might have to just take it on faith that its the right thing to do for the greater good etc...

Doing something because everyone else is doing it is a very bad idea.

um no, doing something that no-one else is doing is a very bad idea (unless you're a Steve Jobs or Bill Gates)...  If everyone else is doing something you probably need to question your own beliefs as to why you want to go against the majority... And, no-one is  forcing you to do anything - sit back, enjoy your unvaccinated lifestyle, i'm sure you'll find plenty to do at home...

[king1]

an analogy for those who feel they are being 'forced' to vaccinate...

In my daily life I am required to accept license agreements to install or use certain software, goods or services. These I accept willingly because I choose to, as I want to use the provided offerings. It is simply a requirement by the entity with authority, to dictate the terms and conditions of such use.

Getting vaccinated is no different; yes you need the jab; yes you rely on the science - but it is simply a choice you need to make, no different to any of the myriad of choices we all make every day.

The cost of not doing so is quite simply foregoing the offerings available.

[Me+Me]

Doing something because everyone else is doing it is a very bad idea.

Not necessarily at all.
Perhaps 'everyone else' have some sense and doing that they do might be a very good idea indeed.  Doesn't it occur to you that a majority is quite often a sign of RIGHT rather than wrong ?

[egem]

Doing something because everyone else is doing it is a very bad idea.

Not necessarily at all.
Perhaps 'everyone else' have some sense and doing that they do might be a very good idea indeed.  Doesn't it occur to you that a majority is quite often a sign of RIGHT rather than wrong ?

Sometimes, but not always. Easy enough to find examples from history when the majority was wrong.

[king1]

Not necessarily at all.
Perhaps 'everyone else' have some sense and doing that they do might be a very good idea indeed.  Doesn't it occur to you that a majority is quite often a sign of RIGHT rather than wrong ?

Sometimes, but not always. Easy enough to find examples from history when the majority was wrong.

Let's have some then?