NZ covid deaths are getting up there

[king1]

Now that Covid deaths have topped 1000, what does everyone think about the covid strategy NZ is applying?

For a long while we were able to keep it at bay with double digit total deaths well into March...

But now eight weeks later, we are over a 1000 deaths and daily double digit deaths more often than not 

I know there is a lot of covid apathy nowadays and we are getting a little bit of normality back, but this does seem to be coming at a cost in deaths.  Ultimately it seems to come down to a trade-off between 'life as normal' versus people dieing...

Have we got the balance right?
Are we still comfortable with the covid strategy?  
Would more restrictions and/or lockdowns have saved some of those lives?
Is it ok to tradeoff covid deaths for economic reasons?

[Lilith7]

I think it was likely to happen, that deaths increased. Short of a far longer lockdown, there doesn't seem to be another way to avoid more deaths. And while I think govt mucked it up with regard to getting Kiwis home, & MIQ, otherwise I think they've done a reasonable job - not perfect, but then no country seems to managed that.

[Olive]

I think there is much apathy and Covid fatigue at present, and I don't know how the government can do any more to raise awareness short of another very expensive advertising campaign featuring Dr Bloomfield with a dozen Aotearoa celebrities. The opposition parties are pandering to people's laziness and lack of concern for others by pretending that the pandemic is on the way out and it seems to me that a huge proportion of the population is falling for this misinformation. In fact the case numbers are increasing, particularly in Auckland at present, and will increase further as winter sets in.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

Flu numbers are creeping up too, if the Flu Tracking survey graph is anything to go by...

[Oldfellah]

Are all the deaths Covid related? What I mean by this the deaths that are occurring is it because of Covid or if someone dies of natural causes is Covid being found at the autopsy? 
If their were no Covid would say 5 to 10 or so deaths a day in the whole country be a normal amount? 
People die all the time people are born all the time, I wonder without doing actual research what the figure would be?

[harm_less]

Are all the deaths Covid related? What I mean by this the deaths that are occurring is it because of Covid or if someone dies of natural causes is Covid being found at the autopsy? 
If their were no Covid would say 5 to 10 or so deaths a day in the whole country be a normal amount? 
People die all the time people are born all the time, I wonder without doing actual research what the figure would be?

Fair question and one that is being asked internationally.

The most relevant method of tracking deaths due to COVID would seem to be by comparing deaths currently with the average for the same period (of the year) on average. The difference will effectively be extra deaths due to COVID though during the national lockdowns this number of deaths did reduce due to reduced activity of the population (i.e. less road, workplace and drowning occurring).

The other factor that comes into it is deaths that are hastened by COVID in those with existing medical issues such as cardiac and respiratory disease. While COVID does actually kill them it has done so by speeding up the inevitable. So, death are those due to COVID or just 'jumping the queue' due to the added medical burden? Subjective call I guess.

[Lilith7]

I think Olive makes a good point; we're all fed up with covid, hearing about it, having to be careful because of it & some politicians will play on that because that's the nature of the beast - anything to advance their cause & gain votes.

Having had everything that was going when I was a kid, I very seldom get ill but even so still need to be careful these days which really annoys me - & if it annoys me, then I can imagine how much worse it is for those who haven't the best health & need to be far more careful.
Its hardly surprising then that many are getting tired of hearing about covid & just want it to go away.

[Oldfellah]

I too wish it would go away but fat chance, Im sick of it because I am waiting for a couple of cardiac procedures which have been canceled because not enough hospital staff as they were off with covid. So I have to be careful where I go and what I do because I would be one of the vulnerable ones until my heart op, whenever that will be now!

[Lilith7]

I too wish it would go away but fat chance, Im sick of it because I am waiting for a couple of cardiac procedures which have been canceled because not enough hospital staff as they were off with covid. So I have to be careful where I go and what I do because I would be one of the vulnerable ones until my heart op, whenever that will be now!

And you're not the only one either, its just another aspect of covid, & one of the worse ones. Its creating havoc for people in your situation & putting added pressure on the health system.

[Oldfellah]

I too wish it would go away but fat chance, Im sick of it because I am waiting for a couple of cardiac procedures which have been canceled because not enough hospital staff as they were off with covid. So I have to be careful where I go and what I do because I would be one of the vulnerable ones until my heart op, whenever that will be now!

And you're not the only one either, its just another aspect of covid, & one of the worse ones. Its creating havoc for people in your situation & putting added pressure on the health system.

I agree I feel for the poor sods that get the virus, all my family have had it and they tell me its not very nice.

[Lilith7]

Yep, various family have had it & eldest granddaughter & her family have it at present; they're all saying how horrible it is so hoping I don't get it.

[C_T_Russell]

Only 1000 deaths is not much, flu kills almost as many.
Then we see those that died "with" covid not "from" covid.
Take away other health conditions from those that died and I think you will find that most did not die from covid itself.

And the govt are not telling everyone the real numbers of the vaccine injured or their related deaths either.
There are people dropping off like flies with heart attacks and all sorts of things at the moment, including "healthy" athletes and sports players on the field.
I just had a relative die from a heart attack and he never had any heart issues at all. And im hearing the same stories all over the place, whether or not its the vaccine, I cant say, but i smell a rat.

[Lilith7]

Only 1000 deaths is not much, flu kills almost as many.
Then we see those that died "with" covid not "from" covid.
Take away other health conditions from those that died and I think you will find that most did not die from covid itself.

And the govt are not telling everyone the real numbers of the vaccine injured or their related deaths either.
There are people dropping off like flies with heart attacks and all sorts of things at the moment, including "healthy" athletes and sports players on the field.
I just had a relative die from a heart attack and he never had any heart issues at all. And im hearing the same stories all over the place, whether or not its the vaccine, I cant say, but i smell a rat.

Oooh! It must be a conspiracy then - quick, spread the word...

[harm_less]

Only 1000 deaths is not much, flu kills almost as many.
Then we see those that died "with" covid not "from" covid.
Take away other health conditions from those that died and I think you will find that most did not die from covid itself.

And the govt are not telling everyone the real numbers of the vaccine injured or their related deaths either.
There are people dropping off like flies with heart attacks and all sorts of things at the moment, including "healthy" athletes and sports players on the field.
I just had a relative die from a heart attack and he never had any heart issues at all. And im hearing the same stories all over the place, whether or not its the vaccine, I cant say, but i smell a rat.

Maybe you should relisten to the Sean Plunket/Michael Baker interview you posted, particularly Michael's comments regarding "excess deaths". Those deaths that vary from the expected average will include not only COVID mortality but also all these "people dropping off like flies" you refer to, and for NZ excess deaths have actual been negative during the last couple of years due to COVID measures as claimed by Dr. Baker.

[C_T_Russell]

Only 1000 deaths is not much, flu kills almost as many.
Then we see those that died "with" covid not "from" covid.
Take away other health conditions from those that died and I think you will find that most did not die from covid itself.

And the govt are not telling everyone the real numbers of the vaccine injured or their related deaths either.
There are people dropping off like flies with heart attacks and all sorts of things at the moment, including "healthy" athletes and sports players on the field.
I just had a relative die from a heart attack and he never had any heart issues at all. And im hearing the same stories all over the place, whether or not its the vaccine, I cant say, but i smell a rat.

Maybe you should relisten to the Sean Plunket/Michael Baker interview you posted, particularly Michael's comments regarding "excess deaths". Those deaths that vary from the expected average will include not only COVID mortality but also all these "people dropping off like flies" you refer to, and for NZ excess deaths have actual been negative during the last couple of years due to COVID measures as claimed by Dr. Baker.

One of those covid "deaths" was from someone that was shot, only later to have found to have tested positive for covid during the autopsy.
The deaths and medical incidents on the sports field I was referring to was heart related, possibly myocarditis or vaccine related injury that was not previously identified.
I have 2 friends who are vaccine injured and have terrible effects from the vaccine.
Its quite common.

[SueDonim]

Maybe you should relisten to the Sean Plunket/Michael Baker interview you posted, particularly Michael's comments regarding "excess deaths". Those deaths that vary from the expected average will include not only COVID mortality but also all these "people dropping off like flies" you refer to, and for NZ excess deaths have actual been negative during the last couple of years due to COVID measures as claimed by Dr. Baker.

One of those covid "deaths" was from someone that was shot, only later to have found to have tested positive for covid during the autopsy.
The deaths and medical incidents on the sports field I was referring to was heart related, possibly myocarditis or vaccine related injury that was not previously identified.
I have 2 friends who are vaccine injured and have terrible effects from the vaccine.
Its quite common.

Some time ago we standardised the counting to follow other countries so that data provides a proper comparison. Like all data there are multiple ways of counting and interpreting numbers so the standardisation was important. It would be good though to be told how many people died with covid as the only or the primary cause of death.

Regarding your dig at vaccine injury, we've been over and over that and that's where you topple into CT territory. Yes, there are some vaccine injuries. But there are far far far more injuries in the people who actually get covid, especially when they are unvaccinated. The vaccine protects from a lot of that. And just because they didn't make the statistics we see every day doesn't mean it doesn't happen. There's long covid, there are autoimmune issues, there's ongoing heart disease. And so it goes.

[C_T_Russell]

One of those covid "deaths" was from someone that was shot, only later to have found to have tested positive for covid during the autopsy.
The deaths and medical incidents on the sports field I was referring to was heart related, possibly myocarditis or vaccine related injury that was not previously identified.
I have 2 friends who are vaccine injured and have terrible effects from the vaccine.
Its quite common.

Some time ago we standardised the counting to follow other countries so that data provides a proper comparison. Like all data there are multiple ways of counting and interpreting numbers so the standardisation was important. It would be good though to be told how many people died with covid as the only or the primary cause of death.

Regarding your dig at vaccine injury, we've been over and over that and that's where you topple into CT territory. Yes, there are some vaccine injuries. But there are far far far more injuries in the people who actually get covid, especially when they are unvaccinated. The vaccine protects from a lot of that. And just because they didn't make the statistics we see every day doesn't mean it doesn't happen. There's long covid, there are autoimmune issues, there's ongoing heart disease. And so it goes.

There definitely needs to be a more honest and transparent way of recording deaths.
But the govt is basically following WHO guidelines, so we should be asking them the reason why.
Car accidents, murders and cancer deaths dont count as covid deaths.

Ive got a few friends double or triple jabbed, one who has had covid really bad, was sick for weeks and another who is still suffering with long covid.
My doctor gave me a long rant about getting the vaccine and told me I would get "long covid" if i didnt get the jab.
Glad I didnt take her advice, our whole family got covid at once a good 3 months ago and was no worse than the flu, my father in his 70's had the least severe symptoms out of all of us.

I know plenty who are unvaxxed with covid and none have had serious symptoms, they all say it was no different than a cold or flu.
Of course many will just say that this is anecdotal, but I think it warrants more study.
Experts will just say that these people would have been alot sicker if they didnt have the jab, so you cant win. And since most of NZ is jabbed, we wont really get accurate data anymore.

What is the biggest laugh is they are still telling people to get another "booster" after having covid but wait at least 3 months before having it lol.

How dumb can anyone be? If the 1st, 2nd or 3rd shot didnt stop you getting covid, then what is the point of even bothering with another shot? You have already gained natural immunity by this stage anyway. The updated omicron booster isint even available yet and the virus has already mutated since then into even more variants, so its completley pointless.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

My Perth based daughter had covid. Access to the best antivirals, because she is one of the very vulnerable, kept her alive, but she said the experience was awful, even with that support. And she is double boosted.

So, imagine what the situation would have been without all those medical and political efforts on her behalf.

I think we are very lucky, here in the deep South, and should be grateful for that accident of fate. Worldwide, the death and injury toll has been enormous. That's the reality we avoided.

[C_T_Russell]

My Perth based daughter had covid. Access to the best antivirals, because she is one of the very vulnerable, kept her alive, but she said the experience was awful, even with that support. And she is double boosted.

So, imagine what the situation would have been without all those medical and political efforts on her behalf.

I think we are very lucky, here in the deep South, and should be grateful for that accident of fate. Worldwide, the death and injury toll has been enormous. That's the reality we avoided.

There is a very good chance your daughter would have been no worse off if she had not had the jab.
In fact, people with poorer immune systems may not be able to handle the immune response from the vaccine.
More data is needed, but there are studies showing that the (pfizer) vaccine keeps making the spike proteins in your body long after having the jab.
Blood tests are showing abnormally high levels of white blood cells in the body in some people who have had the jab.
In such cases, it appears their immune system is in overdrive trying to clear all these spike proteins that their body is producing.
So when you catch covid, you are actually in a worse place because their immune system is compromised.
Now there needs to be more data on this, but its becoming clearer that there is an issue and I dont think it will be long before we see multi billion dollar lawsuits.

There is an interview with Dr Campbell where he interviews someone who had serious side effects from the jab and he has been using ivermectin to help relieve the symptoms.

I was skeptical at first when I was researching this about the M-RNA vaccines, but there definitely is some cause for concern.

[SueDonim]

Some time ago we standardised the counting to follow other countries so that data provides a proper comparison. Like all data there are multiple ways of counting and interpreting numbers so the standardisation was important. It would be good though to be told how many people died with covid as the only or the primary cause of death.

Regarding your dig at vaccine injury, we've been over and over that and that's where you topple into CT territory. Yes, there are some vaccine injuries. But there are far far far more injuries in the people who actually get covid, especially when they are unvaccinated. The vaccine protects from a lot of that. And just because they didn't make the statistics we see every day doesn't mean it doesn't happen. There's long covid, there are autoimmune issues, there's ongoing heart disease. And so it goes.

There definitely needs to be a more honest and transparent way of recording deaths.
But the govt is basically following WHO guidelines, so we should be asking them the reason why.
Car accidents, murders and cancer deaths dont count as covid deaths.

Ive got a few friends double or triple jabbed, one who has had covid really bad, was sick for weeks and another who is still suffering with long covid.
My doctor gave me a long rant about getting the vaccine and told me I would get "long covid" if i didnt get the jab.
Glad I didnt take her advice, our whole family got covid at once a good 3 months ago and was no worse than the flu, my father in his 70's had the least severe symptoms out of all of us.

I know plenty who are unvaxxed with covid and none have had serious symptoms, they all say it was no different than a cold or flu.
Of course many will just say that this is anecdotal, but I think it warrants more study.
Experts will just say that these people would have been alot sicker if they didnt have the jab, so you cant win. And since most of NZ is jabbed, we wont really get accurate data anymore.

What is the biggest laugh is they are still telling people to get another "booster" after having covid but wait at least 3 months before having it lol.

How dumb can anyone be? If the 1st, 2nd or 3rd shot didnt stop you getting covid, then what is the point of even bothering with another shot? You have already gained natural immunity by this stage anyway. The updated omicron booster isint even available yet and the virus has already mutated since then into even more variants, so its completley pointless.

Your family story may be interesting but is not "evidence" of anything. It's well known that many people have only minor symptoms from covid, but those who have severe symptoms can be in big trouble. And a proportion of those with even minor symptoms will have long covid. And, as has been repeated over and over, those serious symptoms and/or long covid are MUCH LESS LIKELY IF YOU ARE VACCINATED.

Advice from medical experts is based on evidence. The lowest level of such evidence is case studies, which are already a step up from your anecdotes because at least the case study is presented by someone with knowledge of how the body works. You can learn more about levels of evidence here https://ascension-wi.libguides.com/ebp/Levels_of_Evidence and https://libguides.winona.edu/ebptoolkit/Levels-Evidence.

It has been a while since I looked up vaccine safety, but on having a look now I can't see that anything has changed since last time I looked. Here are a couple of reviews: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1...21.2002083 and https://pmj.bmj.com/content/postgradmedj...9.full.pdf. Vaccines are very safe when compared to the risks from the disease.


You say "How dumb can anyone be? ..." Those who got covid after being vaccinated have possibly gained some extra immunity, which may be to a different variant from the one optimised in the vaccine, but may also be to a different variant from the one they will come in contact with next. They need to understand that this immunity will wane, just as the immunity from the vaccine does. So, for those where it is indicated, waiting three months and getting the next booster plays it safe. Eventually we will have a generic vaccine for all coronaviruses (inlcuding flu) but that's not here yet. So in the meantime, it's common sense to accept advice and do what is recommended by those who actually know something.

At the end of the day, those giving formal medical advice actually know a HUGE!!!!!! amount more than the laymen who don't understand the bigger picture and put out disinformaiton on forums like this.

In the perfect world, people would be avoiding unnecessary personal contact and wearing their facemasks when they should be. Since there are so many who refuse to take these basic precautions, the rest of us need to over-compensate, and if that means being immunised as advised, it's advice that sensible people are happy to to take.

---

My Perth based daughter had covid. Access to the best antivirals, because she is one of the very vulnerable, kept her alive, but she said the experience was awful, even with that support. And she is double boosted.

So, imagine what the situation would have been without all those medical and political efforts on her behalf.

I think we are very lucky, here in the deep South, and should be grateful for that accident of fate. Worldwide, the death and injury toll has been enormous. That's the reality we avoided.

There is a very good chance your daughter would have been no worse off if she had not had the jab.
In fact, people with poorer immune systems may not be able to handle the immune response from the vaccine.
More data is needed, but there are studies showing that the (pfizer) vaccine keeps making the spike proteins in your body long after having the jab.
Blood tests are showing abnormally high levels of white blood cells in the body in some people who have had the jab.
In such cases, it appears their immune system is in overdrive trying to clear all these spike proteins that their body is producing.
So when you catch covid, you are actually in a worse place because their immune system is compromised.
Now there needs to be more data on this, but its becoming clearer that there is an issue and I dont think it will be long before we see multi billion dollar lawsuits.

There is an interview with Dr Campbell where he interviews someone who had serious side effects from the jab and he has been using ivermectin to help relieve the symptoms.

I was skeptical at first when I was researching this about the M-RNA vaccines, but there definitely is some cause for concern.

It is very likely that Oh_hunnihunni's daughter would have been worse off without the jab.

People with poor immune systems are less likely to be able to handle catching the disease. Why can you not understand this? The vaccine is not perfect, but it's the best we have and is one hell of a lot safer than risking the disease except for a very few people who will have been working closely with their doctors all through this.

Your "information" about the immune system is clearly from disinformation sources that should be ignored, or laughed at. Here is some evidence about this https://www.reuters.com/article/factchec...SL1N2L9187.

Dr Campbell has been well discredited. He started out with a reasonable amount of good sense, but seems to have gone off the rails. He is not a virologist, immunologist, epidemiologist or infectious disease specialist. He is a retired nurse educator.

There has been a lot of attention paid to the potential for use Ivermectin. Research (as in PROPER research) has variable results. See this https://www.bmj.com/content/377/bmj.o917. When you are looking up information it is not research. When you are looking it up on social media sites it is not even an information search.

When you repeat what you have read from dodgy sources, it is disinformation.