My sexual orientation.

[king1]

I'm not sure that victimhood is a characteristic I would use to describe the LGBTQIA community. Sure they are looking for recognition and acceptance but this discussion seems to be heading down the path of suggesting the best place for them is back in the closet where they belong... Obviously not cool...

The old adage applies I think, about society being judged on how it treats its elderly, can easily apply here to marginalised members of society...

The example about the spending on the parade is a valid point but only if it being presented on financial terms, wastefulness etc - there is a tendency (probably legal requirement) to 'do more' for marginalised members of society, I think it is a good thing. They have budgets for this kind of expenditure, it is not just robbing the straight folks purse...

[Olive]

I'm not sure that victimhood is a characteristic I would use to describe the LGBTQIA community.  Sure they are looking for recognition and acceptance but this discussion seems to be heading down the path of suggesting the best place for them is back in the closet where they belong... Obviously not cool...

The old adage applies I think, about society being judged on how it treats its elderly, can easily apply here to marginalised members of society... 

Absolutely agree.  The original poster seems to be suggesting that we return to the hypocrisy of the 1950s, when it was dangerous to be openly gay and the suicide rate of gay people was huge.

[king1]

we have a stupidly high suicide rate in NZ anyway and apparently it's five times higher for the LGBTQIA community...
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/break-the-...ONQ3MJQRY/

[The BDI]

Ahhh, if you show me yours I show you mine? Risky, I suspect I can match if not outdo...

And yes, victimhood can be a choice. This is part of my argument, that revolves around understanding acceptance and choices being part of maturity.

That, and understanding that picking our battles is a path to a quiet and  calm inner life. As in 'don't sweat the little stuff'..

So how often do you wave yours in the face of others expecting an indulgence of some sort?

[Lilith7]

I have a Russian neighbour. She isn't the nicest woman, hasn't made many friends here, even her family prefer arms length because she is contentious at times - probably part of the reason she, and many of us, have ended up here in this wee community. But she has that accent. The one that betrays her birth in Kyiv and her life in Moscow. She has been subjected to nasty remarks, lost social contacts, been shunned, and in one case actually spat at by nice well brought up New Zealanders since Putin started his murderous campaign.

People are horrible, and some of us love to vomit hate and spite on available targets, especially on those among us who appear different.

Being gay, or wanting to be accepted outside the norms makes us a target for that kind of attack. A single man in a group of women will know he is 'different', just as a single woman in a group of makes knows only too well she is. There is threat, and risk, and danger in that isolation, be the cause gender, sexuality, race, colour, age, political standpoint, ability or disability...Difference has inherent vulnerability. And we, as predatory animals are triggered by vulnerability.

" Difference has inherent vulnerability. And we, as predatory animals are triggered by vulnerability."

So lets broadcast that difference and then complain about our vulnerability eh?  Only makes sense...

No. Not at all - like most here I'm old enough to remember all too vividly a time when a person could be & was, murdered for being gay. A time when people had to pretend, had to blend in, had to conform & try as best they could to fit into a mould which simply wasn't them.
Humans tend to sometimes, as Hunni says,  latch onto difference & (some of us) attack because of that difference - look around & you can see that everywhere, especially on social media these days.

There are some twisted souls who enjoy baiting, trolling or targeting other people on various social media - anyone slightly different in however small a way can become a target.  And over centuries, gay people have been a target for those of a sadistic turn.

Like most of us I've known several gay people (both in RL & on social media)  over the course of a lifetime & can remember the days when gay people had to hide who they were. Thankfully, those primitive days are gone, thanks to the bravery of gay people themselves having the courage to stand up & tell the world that enough of that particular brand of bullshit was enough & they were no long prepared to hide in corners. They were coming out, & so they did.

And good for them, long may they continue to to not hide, to not be ashamed of who they are.

[king1]

I think you've misunderstood the point of the recent article about McFarlane.  The point was not that he is gay - that hasn't been a secret-  but that he gets hate mail because of his gayness.   Your pearl clutching would be better directed towards the hate-mailers.

I think you've missed the point... if he didn't insist on telling the world at large that he was gay..... he may not get hate mail.

I'm not sure that, in a society where we value freedom of speech and (mostly) inclusivity, that one should have to hide a part of their life just to appease or avoid the outrage of a bunch of keyboard warriors.

It says far more about the idiots banging away on their keyboards than it does about him...  Some folks just need to take a chill pill

[The BDI]

" Difference has inherent vulnerability. And we, as predatory animals are triggered by vulnerability."

So lets broadcast that difference and then complain about our vulnerability eh?  Only makes sense...

No. Not at all - like most here I'm old enough to remember all too vividly a time when a person could be & was, murdered for being gay. A time when people had to pretend, had to blend in, had to conform & try as best they could to fit into a mould which simply wasn't them.
Humans tend to sometimes, as Hunni says,  latch onto difference & (some of us) attack because of that difference - look around & you can see that everywhere, especially on social media these days.

There are some twisted souls who enjoy baiting, trolling or targeting other people on various social media - anyone slightly different in however small a way can become a target.  And over centuries, gay people have been a target for those of a sadistic turn.

Like most of us I've known several gay people (both in RL & on social media)  over the course of a lifetime & can remember the days when gay people had to hide who they were. Thankfully, those primitive days are gone, thanks to the bravery of gay people themselves having the courage to stand up & tell the world that enough of that particular brand of bullshit was enough & they were no long prepared to hide in corners. They were coming out, & so they did.

And good for them, long may they continue to to not hide, to not be ashamed of who they are.

And I'm almost old enough to remember when certain Govts culled people like me.....

[king1]

No. Not at all - like most here I'm old enough to remember all too vividly a time when a person could be & was, murdered for being gay. A time when people had to pretend, had to blend in, had to conform & try as best they could to fit into a mould which simply wasn't them.
Humans tend to sometimes, as Hunni says,  latch onto difference & (some of us) attack because of that difference - look around & you can see that everywhere, especially on social media these days.

There are some twisted souls who enjoy baiting, trolling or targeting other people on various social media - anyone slightly different in however small a way can become a target.  And over centuries, gay people have been a target for those of a sadistic turn.

Like most of us I've known several gay people (both in RL & on social media)  over the course of a lifetime & can remember the days when gay people had to hide who they were. Thankfully, those primitive days are gone, thanks to the bravery of gay people themselves having the courage to stand up & tell the world that enough of that particular brand of bullshit was enough & they were no long prepared to hide in corners. They were coming out, & so they did.

And good for them, long may they continue to to not hide, to not be ashamed of who they are.

And I'm almost old enough to remember when certain Govts culled people like me.....

Human beings can be vile creatures

[The BDI]

I think you've missed the point... if he didn't insist on telling the world at large that he was gay..... he may not get hate mail.

I'm not sure that, in a society where we value freedom of speech and (mostly) inclusivity, that one should have to hide a part of their life just to appease or avoid the outrage of a bunch of keyboard warriors.

It says far more about the idiots banging away on their keyboards than it does about him...  Some folks just need to take a chill pill

And yet, rather ironically  I am perhaps one of the few keyboard warriors here who has a position of declared non interest in an individuals sexuality. 
My only gripe is that many expect that I must recognise them upon their disclosure of it.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

Well, as a boomer I think our hypocrisy was actually based on ignorance.

Education is a wonderful thing, and that is one side effect of people shouting and marching and getting in our faces. They make us think.

[The BDI]

Well, as a boomer I think  our hypocrisy was actually based on ignorance.

Education is a wonderful thing, and that is one side effect of people shouting and marching and getting in our faces. They make us think.

My brother is gay.  Has been for most of his life.. 68 years...

[Oh_hunnihunni]

I'm not sure that, in a society where we value freedom of speech and (mostly) inclusivity, that one should have to hide a part of their life just to appease or avoid the outrage of a bunch of keyboard warriors.

It says far more about the idiots banging away on their keyboards than it does about him...  Some folks just need to take a chill pill

And yet, rather ironically  I am perhaps one of the few keyboard warriors here who has a position of declared non interest in an individuals sexuality. 
My only gripe is that many expect that I must recognise them upon their disclosure of it.

Which is exactly what I mean by wishing everyone had the confidence that comes from acceptance of themselves. Of being ordinary. Individual among a group of accepting individuals.  But it is a confidence built on age and experience, as well as social nurture.

Maybe recognising is part of the process of accepting. After all, other people don't want to make us become clones of them. They don't want to make being Other compulsory. They just want to be accepted, otherness included. Part of that, though, for me is accepting themselves as they are, and not wanting to be imitations of binary folk.

But that might be my terfness speaking... 

[The BDI]

And yet, rather ironically  I am perhaps one of the few keyboard warriors here who has a position of declared non interest in an individuals sexuality. 
My only gripe is that many expect that I must recognise them upon their disclosure of it.

Which is exactly what I mean by wishing everyone had the confidence that comes from acceptance of themselves. Of being ordinary. Individual among a group of accepting individuals.  But it is a confidence built on age and experience, as well as social nurture.

Maybe recognising is part of the process of accepting. After all, other people don't want to make us become clones of them. They don't want to make being Other compulsory. They just want to be accepted, otherness included. Part of that, though, for me is accepting themselves as they are, and not wanting to be imitations of binary folk.

But that might be my terfness speaking... 

Not necessarily... perhaps I simply reject the "look at moi look at moi"  sentiment of some.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

They aren't requiring you to do that though. It isn't compulsory.

'Don't look, Ethel!' if it offends you. Looking is under your control, not theirs, no matter how loud they yell...

[The BDI]

They aren't requiring you to do that though. It isn't compulsory.

'Don't look, Ethel!' if it offends you. Looking is under your control, not theirs, no matter how loud they yell...

And that's where we differ.... the " look at moi look at moi" is loud and public, and as I've mentioned before almost compulsory in certain occupations. 
Again I ask ... if people are not interested in the sexuality of the av white male (or female)... why should the anybody be at all interested in theirs..

[Oldfellah]

Bloody hell Mr/Miz/Binary BDI 
dont you think you have made your point? You keep on and on about the whole thing over and over again, your starting to sound like a cracked record, personally I think your trying to agitate people, sure everyone has a point of view and fucked if I know what yours is, its about time to give it a rest I think.

[king1]

I'm not sure that, in a society where we value freedom of speech and (mostly) inclusivity, that one should have to hide a part of their life just to appease or avoid the outrage of a bunch of keyboard warriors.

It says far more about the idiots banging away on their keyboards than it does about him...  Some folks just need to take a chill pill

And yet, rather ironically  I am perhaps one of the few keyboard warriors here who has a position of declared non interest in an individuals sexuality. 
My only gripe is that many expect that I must recognise them upon their disclosure of it.

I sense a contradiction in that statement - your gripe itself almost certainly implies a declared interest.  

What exactly is the problem with recognising the disclosure anyway? you can choose not too if you insist but you seem to be avoiding the logical choice one might make in your position of simply not giving a fuck one way or the other.  You could simply choose to ignore it and move on...  Don't think it's worth losing any sleep over, just because someone we don't know personally decides to out themselves.

[Lilith7]

They aren't requiring you to do that though. It isn't compulsory.

'Don't look, Ethel!' if it offends you. Looking is under your control, not theirs, no matter how loud they yell...

And that's where we differ.... the " look at moi look at moi" is loud and public, and as I've mentioned before almost compulsory in certain occupations. 
Again I ask ... if people are not interested in the sexuality of the av white male (or female)... why should the anybody be at all interested in theirs..

But is it though, or is that just your perception when someone doesn't hide their sexual orientation. Is it just someone being straightforward & open rather than wanting attention.

[Olive]

Bloody hell Mr/Miz/Binary BDI 
dont you think you have made your point? You keep on and on about the whole thing over and over again, your starting to sound like a cracked record, personally I think your trying to agitate people, sure everyone has a point of view and fucked if I know what yours is, its about time to give it a rest I think.

It's not often that I agree with Oldfella, but today's the day!

[king1]

They aren't requiring you to do that though. It isn't compulsory.

'Don't look, Ethel!' if it offends you. Looking is under your control, not theirs, no matter how loud they yell...

And that's where we differ.... the " look at moi look at moi" is loud and public, and as I've mentioned before almost compulsory in certain occupations. 
Again I ask ... if people are not interested in the sexuality of the av white male (or female)... why should the anybody be at all interested in theirs..

I would actually suggest you obtained your "people are not interested in the sexuality of the av white male (or female)" evidence you're using under false pretences with a leading question in your OP, and the number of responses are definitely not statistically significant,  so it really doesn't follow that nobody should "be at all interested in theirs" - I imagine a significant number of the LGBTQIA community are interested for starters.

There are self centered, 'look at moi' types in all aspects of society that we need to tolerate or ignore, not just LGBTQIA.  Social media is full of them - I can't really see why you are singling out the LGBTQIA community...