Our freedoms are being taken away...

[Olive]

What nonsense. Scaremongering conspiracy theory.

[Magoo]

there is potential that i could cut my arm off with a butter knife.'
'ive heard', 'i saw a news story', this feels like', 'could be next'

so you really got nothing have you? just anecdotal, unsubstantiated, maybes, ifs, and could be's.

ive lost no freedoms. the only ones i know who have, chose to.
what is a pacemaker if it isnt an implant? a morena? diabetics inject themselves multiple times daily, no day off.
whats a cochlear implant if it isnt an implant? could the chip monitor my health and warn me when somethings wrong?

fear of the future is understandable in these troubling times but i dont see any reason to revolt, or even to mildly berate.

look after your shit, get vaccinated. bill gates doesnt give a fuck what you are up to, save that
paranoia for another day..
get vaccinated.

[Me+Me]

Why the fuck would you need a chip in your arm? Most of us already carry a smartphone.

Stop being so fuckin paranoid and just get on with life.

And don't forget that while you have rights you also have responsibilities.

Keep your fellow citizens safe. You DO want them to do that for you don't you?
Return the favor..

[Lilith7]

AFAIK, a grand total of no one outside CTers is talking about inserting a chip into anyone.

Once more, to date vaccination is our best weapon against covid. It does not 'remove freedoms'; it DOES though mean that we have to take the precautionary measure of restricting those who refuse to use common sense & get the vaccination, will need to be prevented from being allowed to possibly infect others, including children.

[king1]

What's this even got to do with vaccination?
Its an issue that presents us with anything, vaccination is just one aspect.
If someone gets presented with the choice to get vaxxed or loose their job, how is that a freedom?
You dont have a choice, because most people cant afford to loose their job and have mortgages to pay! Ive never seen anything so ridiculous in my whole life and people cant see through this BS and rules and restrictions that make absolutely no sense.

Ive heard about someone who is an accountant and lost hos job for not getting the vax, but he is someone who works from home and is not in contact with anyone! WTF?
These "rules" are pure punishment for anyone who is not stepping in line with what Jacinda wants out of you, nothing about this is to protect health, or else this person should have been allowed to keep his job.

Freedom belongs to YOU, no one can take that away from you or give you a choice to keep it. Pure and simple.

This feels so much like China's social credit system to me. Ive already spoken to people that are more than happy to have a chip implanted into their hand to hold their vaccine records, etc.
That could be next, if the govt can convince force 90% of the population to have a shot in their arm, then im sure it would not be hard to ask people to sign up for chip implants either.
I already saw a news story about this tech overseas, so it is something being explored.
I myself never would have thought once that anything like this could potentially happen, but all it takes is another pandemic and we could see such a thing implemented.

Im not saying its ever going to happen, but the potential is definitely there, and i can say 100% that i would refuse any such chip implant should anything like that be introduced and I hope others agree, regardless of their views on the vaccine.

They are called mandates and they are the costs of our freedoms.  No-one has ever truly had 'free' choice, it has always been restricted by the rules and laws of society.  On a larger scale, the freedoms we have today are due in no small part to the military that fought and died for it years ago, another cost...  We are doing the same for future generations at the moment...

As for the chips I see a trial is rolled out already
https://www.npr.org/2018/10/22/658808705...their-skin

There is really no need for this to be mandated - this in no way contributes to reducing overall harm caused by covid, it is simply a convenience that some will like, others might not...

[Oh_hunnihunni]

Why do people think Jacinda makes all the rules? She is the PM, but she represents a government made up of democratically elected local MPs, some of whom then step up to Caucus roles and they decide the rules based on the expert opinion and advice of others.

It isn't a one man show. Ffs, stop pretending it is.

[Me+Me]

Why do people think Jacinda makes all the rules? She is the PM, but she represents a government made up of democratically elected local MPs, some of whom then step up to Caucus roles and they decide the rules based on the expert opinion and advice of others.

It isn't a one man show. Ffs, stop pretending it is.

That's correct. But for the idiots she's a focus point . Stupid people.

[king1]

Why do people think Jacinda makes all the rules? She is the PM, but she represents a government made up of democratically elected local MPs, some of whom then step up to Caucus roles and they decide the rules based on the expert opinion and advice of others.

It isn't a one man show. Ffs, stop pretending it is.

and whose decisions are on the whole supported by the 90% or so of the population who are now vaccinated.

[Magoo]

Why do people think Jacinda makes all the rules? She is the PM, but she represents a government made up of democratically elected local MPs, some of whom then step up to Caucus roles and they decide the rules based on the expert opinion and advice of others.

It isn't a one man show. Ffs, stop pretending it is.

from what im lead to believe, and i might be wrong, is that jacinda is single handedly responsible for everything from climate change to Covid.
She also has a communist/socialist agenda to see us all enslaved.
pre covid they called her 'taxcinda'. this was due to lack of anything else to crucify her. covid has been a blessing for her detractors.

[Olive]

Why do people think Jacinda makes all the rules? She is the PM, but she represents a government made up of democratically elected local MPs, some of whom then step up to Caucus roles and they decide the rules based on the expert opinion and advice of others.

It isn't a one man show. Ffs, stop pretending it is.

from what im lead to believe, and i might be wrong, is that jacinda is single handedly responsible for everything from climate change to Covid.
She also has a communist/socialist agenda to see us all enslaved.
pre covid they called her 'taxcinda'. this was due to lack of anything else to crucify her. covid has been a blessing for her detractors.

And keeping the nation's gardens tidy.  Some fool on Twitter this morning opined that "the great lockdown" will be imposed straight after Jacinda's weeding.

[Magoo]

whens the weeding? hopefully a bit closer to winter.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

Can't help wondering just how many of these anti everythings actually vote. Or do they tell themselves there's no point?

[SueDonim]

Why do people think Jacinda makes all the rules? She is the PM, but she represents a government made up of democratically elected local MPs, some of whom then step up to Caucus roles and they decide the rules based on the expert opinion and advice of others.

It isn't a one man show. Ffs, stop pretending it is.

Exactly. For covid it has worked very well. The transparency provided shows that all the different perspectives are considered and a course of action decided, which is why we have done so well during the pandemic.

The big problem we have though is that for everything else this has not happened. Many diverse law changes have been made after expert advice and submissions from people affected who said "Don't" but they "Did" anyway. Current examples include the new mortgage rules, which, like many other law changes in the past, have more negative impact on the "innocent" than on the people they were targeted at. It's heartbreaking to see news items where people who can afford the mortgage they require are turned down for trivial reasons.

---

Can't help wondering just how many of these anti everythings actually vote. Or do they tell themselves there's no point?

I wonder that too, although I also see the side that when you have spent time putting together the submissions and arguments at the appropriate time, also knowing that many other people are doing the same, and the proposed changes to [whatever] just go through anyway, you become disillusioned and give up. When I was young I thought that democracy gave me a voice. Now I realise that whatever is on the table is going to happen regardless of what those who actually know about it have to say. I've found the last couple of elections very difficult to decide how to vote so the next step is probably to give up altogether. Although personally I won't as I've always said that if you didn't vote you can't complain and I still believe that.

[Magoo]

Why do people think Jacinda makes all the rules? She is the PM, but she represents a government made up of democratically elected local MPs, some of whom then step up to Caucus roles and they decide the rules based on the expert opinion and advice of others.

It isn't a one man show. Ffs, stop pretending it is.

Exactly. For covid it has worked very well. The transparency provided shows that all the different perspectives are considered and a course of action decided, which is why we have done so well during the pandemic.

The big problem we have though is that for everything else this has not happened. Many diverse law changes have been made after expert advice and submissions from people affected who said "Don't" but they "Did" anyway. Current examples include the new mortgage rules, which, like many other law changes in the past, have more negative impact on the "innocent" than on the people they were targeted at. It's heartbreaking to see news items where people who can afford the mortgage they require are turned down for trivial reasons.

---

Can't help wondering just how many of these anti everythings actually vote. Or do they tell themselves there's no point?

I wonder that too, although I also see the side that when you have spent time putting together the submissions and arguments at the appropriate time, also knowing that many other people are doing the same, and the proposed changes to [whatever] just go through anyway, you become disillusioned and give up. When I was young I thought that democracy gave me a voice. Now I realise that whatever is on the table is going to happen regardless of what those who actually know about it have to say. I've found the last couple of elections very difficult to decide how to vote so the next step is probably to give up altogether. Although personally I won't as I've always said that if you didn't vote you can't complain and I still believe that.

vote or not, as long as i pay taxes i will reserve the right to comment on how it is spent.

[SueDonim]

vote or not, as long as i pay taxes i will reserve the right to comment on how it is spent.

 Good point, although I think we should still vote for that tiny bit of control over how the taxes are spent. And of course, many of the complainants are those who spend our taxes rather than pay them.

[Lilith7]

PM's make handy targets, especially women PM's & especially left of centre female PM's.

Just as we all pay taxes, so we all love to complain about political leaders. For those opposed, any PM/Govt not of their choosing can seldom if ever, do anything right.
And at least for some people, any govt they voted for can do no wrong - which I think is something we should try to avoid.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

Exactly. For covid it has worked very well. The transparency provided shows that all the different perspectives are considered and a course of action decided, which is why we have done so well during the pandemic.

The big problem we have though is that for everything else this has not happened. Many diverse law changes have been made after expert advice and submissions from people affected who said "Don't" but they "Did" anyway. Current examples include the new mortgage rules, which, like many other law changes in the past, have more negative impact on the "innocent" than on the people they were targeted at. It's heartbreaking to see news items where people who can afford the mortgage they require are turned down for trivial reasons.

---

I wonder that too, although I also see the side that when you have spent time putting together the submissions and arguments at the appropriate time, also knowing that many other people are doing the same, and the proposed changes to [whatever] just go through anyway, you become disillusioned and give up. When I was young I thought that democracy gave me a voice. Now I realise that whatever is on the table is going to happen regardless of what those who actually know about it have to say. I've found the last couple of elections very difficult to decide how to vote so the next step is probably to give up altogether. Although personally I won't as I've always said that if you didn't vote you can't complain and I still believe that.

vote or not, as long as i pay taxes i will reserve the right to comment on how it is spent.

And how much government spend you accept?

I think it works both ways. We live in a community, we benefit from that. We therefore have civic responsibilities beyond paying the taxes due.

[Lilith7]

There's no way any govt can invariably find favour with anyone at all times. They're just as human & fallible as the rest of us - they stuff up, make mistakes make decisions which turn out to be wrong.
But unless we want govt by robot, they're the best system we've got.

[Magoo]

vote or not, as long as i pay taxes i will reserve the right to comment on how it is spent.

And how much government spend you accept?

I think it works both ways. We live in a community, we benefit from that. We therefore have civic responsibilities beyond paying the taxes due.

sorry, thought we were talking about the government and policy, we can do civic responsibilities another time i promise.
as far as i know i exist only as a revenue stream to the government, whatever my wishes wants and desires are have been summarily dismissed, ignored or mocked over the years.

my vote has been misused as a signal of approval to the candidate and their policy. more often than not i dont approve, but the candidate is the best of a woeful selection. the politicians misinterpret my vote as a thumbs up. really it was just a way to keep the truly stupid out of office.

i had to stop voting, i was ruining the country with my stupid votes.
people would snivel 'then why did you vote for them',
because you shamed me into doing so
saying i would 'lose democracy' or 'its my duty'..
.or its my
'civic responsibility'.

---

i voted most of my life.
the country still went to hell in a handcart.

a fine legacy ive left for the next generation.

[Waterbird]

"One day we wont even be able to speak our minds. Not trying to shout conspiracy theories, but there is definitely something going on."


Utter bollocks. There is at present only ONE weapon against the virus, & that is vaccination.
If idiots refuse to get vaccinated without valid medical reasons, then those idiots are placing the rest of us  - including small children - at risk.
NO freedoms have been removed so those idiots have the right to not get the only treatment which could save their lives. That choice though doesn't mean they're free to infect other people, which is why they ought to have the commonsense to comprehend the risk their choice might cause others.

sorry, my bad. i was thinking of my own freedoms.
ct was talking about the unvaxxed losing freedoms.
suck it up snowflake, they chose to restrict their freedoms,

What's this even got to do with vaccination?
Its an issue that presents us with anything, vaccination is just one aspect.
If someone gets presented with the choice to get vaxxed or loose their job, how is that a freedom?
You dont have a choice, because most people cant afford to loose their job and have mortgages to pay! Ive never seen anything so ridiculous in my whole life and people cant see through this BS and rules and restrictions that make absolutely no sense.

Ive heard about someone who is an accountant and lost hos job for not getting the vax, but he is someone who works from home and is not in contact with anyone! WTF?
These "rules" are pure punishment for anyone who is not stepping in line with what Jacinda wants out of you, nothing about this is to protect health, or else this person should have been allowed to keep his job.


Freedom belongs to YOU, no one can take that away from you or give you a choice to keep it. Pure and simple.

This feels so much like China's social credit system to me. Ive already spoken to people that are more than happy to have a chip implanted into their hand to hold their vaccine records, etc.
That could be next, if the govt can convince force 90% of the population to have a shot in their arm, then im sure it would not be hard to ask people to sign up for chip implants either.
I already saw a news story about this tech overseas, so it is something being explored.
I myself never would have thought once that anything like this could potentially happen, but all it takes is another pandemic and we could see such a thing implemented.

Im not saying its ever going to happen, but the potential is definitely there, and i can say 100% that i would refuse any such chip implant should anything like that be introduced and I hope others agree, regardless of their views on the vaccine.

---

I agree.  An obvious example is Facebook, where everyone knows that the business model is selling our data but people still complain about getting targeted advertising.

The sooner we get away from google, facebook, twitter, etc the better. Bring on web 3.0

Freedom of choice has never meant freedom from consequences.  Many jobs have requirements that have to be met be it vaccine, drug and alcohol testing, police vetting,professional registration etc.  You can choose to meet those requirements or look for other employment.  Most see the rationale behind them (usually safety) and see them as a positive to ensure that the people they work with and for are kept safe.