Vaccinations kill two

[king1]

"If it turned into a spreader event I would feel quite comfortable prosecuting them for that - no different to an aids sufferer having sex without informing the partner of the aids status"

ok kingi, lets do a hypothetical.

you have sashayed down to the local paknsave for some haematoid creme or whatever.
youve got your exemption life is good.
unknowingly you are carrying a virulent and debilitating strain of covid, as you are not vaccinated against. it has yet to show symptons.
you are in line waiting in line to be served.
also in line is a older gentleman with three unruly kids asking for lollies and kinder surprises.
unknowingly you give it to one of those kids.

should you be prosecuted too?

---

it effects less than 100 people in this country
maybe its better the 100 self isolate so the 5 million dont have to.
you are arguing on behalf of a miniscule percentage of population who probably wish you wouldnt, it makes them look selfish and self absorbed as well.

Of course not, hypothetically, I would have my government issued Vaccine Pass which has presumably been issued weighing all the risks, having been approved by a panel of medical specialists - very different scenario to someone who deliberately lies about their vaxx status to get into a gathering

The difference of course is that most sane people will be much more likely to take their medical advice from a panel of government mandated specialists that are empowered by law to issue government mandated vaccine exemptions, rather than following the law according to Magoo...

[Magoo]

no i understand fully
for some people the vaccine is bad. it might kill or severely injure them.
these folk should not take the vaccine.

however, we are in the middle of a virulent pandemic
those people compromised by the vaccine can still transmit covid, are highly likely to transmit it. we know this.
would it not be better they sat out for a while? do they really need to see the Foo Fighters? do they really need to get that haemmaroid creme themselves??

yes, ill probly get the boot here as well.
that wont stop an unvaccinated person giving the disease to a child
it will just stop me from pointing it out.



for medical reasons you cant take it,
for medical reasons you shouldn't mingle with others.

---

"If it turned into a spreader event I would feel quite comfortable prosecuting them for that - no different to an aids sufferer having sex without informing the partner of the aids status"

ok kingi, lets do a hypothetical.

you have sashayed down to the local paknsave for some haematoid creme or whatever.
youve got your exemption life is good.
unknowingly you are carrying a virulent and debilitating strain of covid, as you are not vaccinated against. it has yet to show symptons.
you are in line waiting in line to be served.
also in line is a older gentleman with three unruly kids asking for lollies and kinder surprises.
unknowingly you give it to one of those kids.

should you be prosecuted too?

---

it effects less than 100 people in this country
maybe its better the 100 self isolate so the 5 million dont have to.
you are arguing on behalf of a miniscule percentage of population who probably wish you wouldnt, it makes them look selfish and self absorbed as well.

Of course not, hypothetically, I would have my government issued Vaccine Pass which has presumably been issued weighing all the risks, having been approved by a panel of medical specialists - very different scenario to someone who deliberately lies about their vaxx status to get into a gathering

The difference of course is that most sane people will be much more likely to take their medical advice from a panel of government mandated specialists that are empowered by law to issue government mandated vaccine exemptions, rather than following the law according to Magoo...

different scenario, same outcome.
why does the scenario matter its the outcome that matters.

[king1]

no i understand fully
for some people the vaccine is bad. it might kill or severely injure them.
these folk should not take the vaccine.

however, we are in the middle of a virulent pandemic
those people compromised by the vaccine can still transmit covid, are highly likely to transmit it. we know this.
would it not be better they sat out for a while? do they really need to see the Foo Fighters? do they really need to get that haemmaroid creme themselves??

yes, ill probly get the boot here as well.
that wont stop an unvaccinated person giving the disease to a child
it will just stop me from pointing it out.



for medical reasons you cant take it,
for medical reasons you shouldn't mingle with others.

Might be better if you and the family stay home Magoo - the laws are not on your side...

[king1]

no i understand fully
for some people the vaccine is bad. it might kill or severely injure them.
these folk should not take the vaccine.

however, we are in the middle of a virulent pandemic
those people compromised by the vaccine can still transmit covid, are highly likely to transmit it. we know this.
would it not be better they sat out for a while? do they really need to see the Foo Fighters? do they really need to get that haemmaroid creme themselves??

yes, ill probly get the boot here as well.
that wont stop an unvaccinated person giving the disease to a child
it will just stop me from pointing it out.



for medical reasons you cant take it,
for medical reasons you shouldn't mingle with others.

---

Of course not, hypothetically, I would have my government issued Vaccine Pass which has presumably been issued weighing all the risks, having been approved by a panel of medical specialists - very different scenario to someone who deliberately lies about their vaxx status to get into a gathering

The difference of course is that most sane people will be much more likely to take their medical advice from a panel of government mandated specialists that are empowered by law to issue government mandated vaccine exemptions, rather than following the law according to Magoo...

different scenario, same outcome.
why does the scenario matter its the outcome that matters.

The answer is in that grey area where you refuse to venture

[Magoo]

no i understand fully
for some people the vaccine is bad. it might kill or severely injure them.
these folk should not take the vaccine.

however, we are in the middle of a virulent pandemic
those people compromised by the vaccine can still transmit covid, are highly likely to transmit it. we know this.
would it not be better they sat out for a while? do they really need to see the Foo Fighters? do they really need to get that haemmaroid creme themselves??

yes, ill probly get the boot here as well.
that wont stop an unvaccinated person giving the disease to a child
it will just stop me from pointing it out.



for medical reasons you cant take it,
for medical reasons you shouldn't mingle with others.

---

different scenario, same outcome.
why does the scenario matter its the outcome that matters.

The answer is in that grey area where you refuse to venture

grey area, is that like half virulent? half contagious. does that mean exempt vaccine but carrying covid regardless?
wheres the grey area? it is brutally simple, you are trying to make it hard.

if you are unvaccinated (for whatever reason) you pose a risk to a segment of our population that we cannot protect

please, self isolate. the entire medical establishment says you should. whatever reasons you have for not self isolating are why we are forced to make mandates.

[harm_less]

Vaccinated does not guarantee you won't be infected by COVID or will spread it. That is part of the grey zone you are willingly ignoring, in the same way that the anti-vaxxers ignore the science. In that way you are no better than those you despise.

[Magoo]

no i understand fully
for some people the vaccine is bad. it might kill or severely injure them.
these folk should not take the vaccine.

however, we are in the middle of a virulent pandemic
those people compromised by the vaccine can still transmit covid, are highly likely to transmit it. we know this.
would it not be better they sat out for a while? do they really need to see the Foo Fighters? do they really need to get that haemmaroid creme themselves??

yes, ill probly get the boot here as well.
that wont stop an unvaccinated person giving the disease to a child
it will just stop me from pointing it out.



for medical reasons you cant take it,
for medical reasons you shouldn't mingle with others.

Might be better if you and the family stay home Magoo - the laws are not on your side...

you might be right.
three dead from our family is probly enough. if the law is going to let certain unvaccinated people into close contact with us then it looks like a few more of us might drop as well. acceptable collateral damage? sounds like, law on your side and everything.

if that happens 
you will definitely have to boot me.

[king1]

please, self isolate. the entire medical establishment says you should. whatever reasons you have for not self isolating are why we are forced to make mandates.

This would appear to be misinformation for the small group (vaccine exempt) that is being discussed... Please provide supporting link/evidence of your position. 


This is the only information I can see on the matter 

If youÔÇÖre given a temporary medical exemption, you will see a record of this in My Covid Record and you will be able to request your pass┬áfrom Saturday 4 December. You will still be able to access essential services until youÔÇÖre able to download your pass.

When your pass is scanned at venues your exemption status will not be disclosed to the business. You will be able to gain access like everyone else.
https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/dise...rtificates

Not seeing anything there that also requires them to stay at home and self isolate?

[Magoo]

Vaccinated does not guarantee you won't be infected by COVID or will spread it. That is part of the grey zone you are willingly ignoring, in the same way that the anti-vaxxers ignore the science. In that way you are no better than those you despise.

thats right. i understand that.
its not a grey area, its common knowledge.
 no argument here, look

you can still catch and spread covid when vaccinated.

however, 
if you are not vaccinated what you carry and disperse is a much more virulent risk.
it is more likely to transmit to other unvaccinated (like the ones who cant for medical reasons) and have far more serious consequences.

this is why we have the traffic light system.
this is why we have mandates
its not magoo making you miss out on going to church
its a health and safety issue.

why are you trying to subvert efforts to take control of this?
why are you coming up with if's , and's and but's at every turn??
it really does seem like people are grasping at anything they can to justify being an antisocial menace.
you encourage it.

Being vaccinated does not stop you from catching or carrying the virus.

[king1]

Vaccinated does not guarantee you won't be infected by COVID or will spread it. That is part of the grey zone you are willingly ignoring, in the same way that the anti-vaxxers ignore the science. In that way you are no better than those you despise.

thats right. i understand that.
its not a grey area, its common knowledge.
 no argument here, look

you can still catch and spread covid when vaccinated.

however, 
if you are not vaccinated what you carry and disperse is a much more virulent risk.
it is more likely to transmit to other unvaccinated (like the ones who cant for medical reasons) and have far more serious consequences.

this is why we have the traffic light system.
this is why we have mandates
its not magoo making you miss out on going to church
its a health and safety issue.

why are you trying to subvert efforts to take control of this?
why are you coming up with if's , and's and but's at every turn??
it really does seem like people are grasping at anything they can to justify being an antisocial menace.
you encourage it.

Being vaccinated does not stop you from catching or carrying the virus.

Again, you are preaching to the converted...

[Magoo]

"When your pass is scanned at venues your exemption status will not be disclosed to the business.
You will be able to gain access like everyone else."

does that read ok to you?

do we not have the right to know you are unvaccinated?  (no matter the reason, the reason why is none of our business)? so we too may make the choice to be in that space with you?

does being somewhere where other unvaxxed are precluded from by mandate, knowing you are unvaccinated also but there anyway because youve got a pass make you feel superior?

its smug, selfish and short sighted. no less.

[king1]

"When your pass is scanned at venues your exemption status will not be disclosed to the business.
You will be able to gain access like everyone else."

does that read ok to you?

do we not have the right to know you are unvaccinated?  (no matter the reason, the reason why is none of our business)? so we too may make the choice to be in that space with you?

does being somewhere where other unvaxxed are precluded from by mandate, knowing you are unvaccinated also but there anyway because youve got a pass make you feel superior?

its smug, selfish and short sighted. no less.

Yes it does
No you don't - your only right/choice is to stay home or not
I wouldn't know being vaxxed, but given they probably have serious health concerns I would say it's the last thing on their mind.
It is the law as it stands in NZ

[Lilith7]

Olive's experience of a person who claimed to be vaccinated so he could carry on with his usual activities despite him not being vaccinated is very concerning. How many others are also doing this & exposing vulnerable people to more risk than those people understand?
That's grossly unfair, & I'd also have no problem with people found to have been doing this being prosecuted because they're knowingly placing others at risk.

Most of us have no problem with those unable to be vaccinated or wear a mask for genuine health reasons, but this behaviour is deeply selfish & could even be said to be malicious.

[Magoo]

i'd love to respond but ive been warned by admin not to pursue this argument.

[C_T_Russell]

Ive just been informed today that my Aunt has got blood clots in her lungs after her covid shot.
Everything ive heard up till now has been hearsay, but this confirms it for me after having a family member suffer blood clots, this is very real.
May be "uncommon" but there must be a few hundred people with this in NZ by now, not everyone gets symptoms, but in her case, she felt breathless and weak and went to the doctor who ordered an MRI.
Luckily for her, she is OK and been put on blood thinners, but could have easily been another death statistic...
My doctor told me the other day that pfizer does not cause blood clots, and that only astrazenica is linked to them, does she take me as a fool?
There are many documented reports coming to the surface with blood clot links. Astrazenica seems to get more bad press around this, but both astrazenica and pfizer have had reports of blood clots and myocarditis.

[crafters_corner]

i'd love to respond but ive been warned by admin not to pursue this argument.

Interesting. I've not seen you being abusive?



I thought we were going to be rather relaxed about things here.

Would admin care to explain?

Besides that, I've lost interest in even reading this thread, because it's hard to keep track of who said what, to whom.

So, some self isolation for you magoo. My mask is on if I see you.

---

Ive just been informed today that my Aunt has got blood clots in her lungs after her covid shot.
Everything ive heard up till now has been hearsay, but this confirms it for me after having a family member suffer blood clots, this is very real.
May be "uncommon" but there must be a few hundred people with this in NZ by now, not everyone gets symptoms, but in her case, she felt breathless and weak and went to the doctor who ordered an MRI.
Luckily for her, she is OK and been put on blood thinners, but could have easily been another death statistic...
My doctor told me the other day that pfizer does not cause blood clots, and that only astrazenica is linked to them, does she take me as a fool?
There are many documented reports coming to the surface with blood clot links. Astrazenica seems to get more bad press around this, but both astrazenica and pfizer have had reports of blood clots and myocarditis.

Blood clots are scary little bastards. I know, coz I've had them. Twice. Blessed to still be here to tell the story.

I hope that your aunt has a speedy recovery.

[Magoo]

thank you crafts, i appreciate it.
but ive already moved on, lets put it to bed.

---

some of my responses are less than stellar, i acknowledge that.
no need for it
im just an opinionated prick that misses his sister in law and his mates

---

the mother in law not so much

*jokes*

[Olive]

Olive's experience of a person who claimed to be vaccinated so he could carry on with his usual activities despite him not being vaccinated is very concerning. How many others are also doing this & exposing vulnerable people to more risk than those people understand?
That's grossly unfair, & I'd also have no problem with people found to have been doing this being prosecuted because they're knowingly placing others at risk.

Most of us have no problem with those unable to be vaccinated or wear a mask  for genuine health reasons, but this behaviour is deeply selfish & could even be said to be malicious.

He's not malicious, just completely selfish, and obsessed with his distorted view of Covid-19.   He only got found out because he was on the road with his sporting team and they made an unplanned stop to get coffee.  Luckily the coffee shop was assiduously checking vaccination passes and his lie was exposed.   Just shows how important it is for venues to follow the rules.

[Magoo]

covids fucked everything up

[Oh_hunnihunni]

Thing is though, lots of folk are unequal under the law, why should vaccination status be any different? I'm a woman, my fertility was governed by law, a man's fertility is not. Smokers are unequal with non smokers, age is another measure of unequality, there are all sorts of inequities in our community, so sorry, that simply doesn't wash.

Being vaccinated is a choice that comes with consequences. We need to grow up and suck it up. Life is unfair, get over it...

With the greatest respect.