03-03-2024, 11:27 AM
All well & good in principle to some extent, but the practice may be a very different thing. In particulay with younger gang members full of testosterone & lacking in life experience & self control.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/35019463...-and-mayor
"Gang patches: Views of a cop, gang member, lawyer and mayor
The new legislation would see all gang insignia banned in public places, would give police the power to issue ÔÇÿdispersal noticesÔÇÖ to gang members gathering in groups and to stop them communicating with each other. It would also allow judges to give more weight to gang membership as an aggravating factor at sentencing.
Police Commissioner Andrew Coster said the proposed law was "ambitious" and would would provide officers with further tools to ÔÇ£continue to put pressure on the gangsÔÇØ, noting it would be up to officers to exercise their judgment about when to enforce it.
Police Association president Chris Cahill said "gang members aren't just going to hand over their patchesÔÇ£ and that policing the proposed law would be difficult in some areas. Some academics have been more critical. Associate law professor Carrie Leonetti called the proposed law a ÔÇ£political gimmickÔÇØ.
The niggly bit, and itÔÇÖs a niggle successive governments have struggled with since the days of┬áNorman Kirk in the 1970s, is working out how to attenuate the impact and presence of gangs in a lawful and practical way.
To take a closer look at this we enter that allegorical bar in HawkeÔÇÖs Bay, and speak to four people at the coalface.
First up is a HawkeÔÇÖs Bay police officer with more that 15 years front-line experience, who is happy to speak provided he remains anonymous.
ÔÇ£I donÔÇÖt think the general public appreciates just how much gang members disdain any form of authority, and especially police officers. I mean they really hate us.
ÔÇ£TheyÔÇÖre ok when theyÔÇÖre by themselves or in a pair. They can be civil and compliant. But any more than two and they just wind each other up like a couple of teenagers egging each other on. TheyÔÇÖre unpredictable, irrational and dangerous,ÔÇØ he said.
ÔÇ£Its really only the old, old school gang members who would be super compliant. They know how to play the game. The new generation are the problem. Full of bravado, showing off to each other. I think the last six years have seen them become way more emboldened.┬á
A local gang member who would also not be identified said there was no way anyone would be taking his patch, or ÔÇ£korowaiÔÇØ (ÔÇÖcloakÔÇÖ), off him.
He said he was a law-abiding citizen, as were many of his fellow gang members. He said he understood that people felt intimidated by patches, but said these tended to be people who had little or no contact with gang members and were under the impression they were all violent and/or criminal.
ÔÇ£Give me an instance with all the tangi of recent where a member of the public has been harmed? It didnÔÇÖt happen,ÔÇØ he said.
The man said there were more law-abiding gang members now ÔÇ£than ever beforeÔÇØ and police would be best served by laws that allowed them to treat gangs like they did any other group.
Scott Jefferson, whoÔÇÖs been a defence lawyer in HawkeÔÇÖs Bay since 1997, said the proposed law was ÔÇ£simply the whipping up of fears and insecurities in the wider public for political gainÔÇØ.
ÔÇ£The Bill will inevitably fall foul of the NZ Bill of Rights Act 1990, particularly s17 - ÔÇÿEveryone has the right too freedom of associationÔÇÖ. No wriggle room there,ÔÇØ he said.
Mayor Craig Little isnÔÇÖt a fan of gang patches in public places, but feels there are more productive uses of police time and resources than targeting gang members for wearing their patches.
ÔÇ£The problem is that we associate the patches with crime. But not everyone wearing those patches is a bad bugger. They might be in a gang associated with crime, but I work with the local gangs and thereÔÇÖs a lot of them doing good stuff and trying to make it better for their families,ÔÇØ he said.
ÔÇ£Look, in an ideal world we wouldnÔÇÖt have gangs, but we do, so we need to work with them. "
https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/35019463...-and-mayor
"Gang patches: Views of a cop, gang member, lawyer and mayor
The new legislation would see all gang insignia banned in public places, would give police the power to issue ÔÇÿdispersal noticesÔÇÖ to gang members gathering in groups and to stop them communicating with each other. It would also allow judges to give more weight to gang membership as an aggravating factor at sentencing.
Police Commissioner Andrew Coster said the proposed law was "ambitious" and would would provide officers with further tools to ÔÇ£continue to put pressure on the gangsÔÇØ, noting it would be up to officers to exercise their judgment about when to enforce it.
Police Association president Chris Cahill said "gang members aren't just going to hand over their patchesÔÇ£ and that policing the proposed law would be difficult in some areas. Some academics have been more critical. Associate law professor Carrie Leonetti called the proposed law a ÔÇ£political gimmickÔÇØ.
The niggly bit, and itÔÇÖs a niggle successive governments have struggled with since the days of┬áNorman Kirk in the 1970s, is working out how to attenuate the impact and presence of gangs in a lawful and practical way.
To take a closer look at this we enter that allegorical bar in HawkeÔÇÖs Bay, and speak to four people at the coalface.
First up is a HawkeÔÇÖs Bay police officer with more that 15 years front-line experience, who is happy to speak provided he remains anonymous.
ÔÇ£I donÔÇÖt think the general public appreciates just how much gang members disdain any form of authority, and especially police officers. I mean they really hate us.
ÔÇ£TheyÔÇÖre ok when theyÔÇÖre by themselves or in a pair. They can be civil and compliant. But any more than two and they just wind each other up like a couple of teenagers egging each other on. TheyÔÇÖre unpredictable, irrational and dangerous,ÔÇØ he said.
ÔÇ£Its really only the old, old school gang members who would be super compliant. They know how to play the game. The new generation are the problem. Full of bravado, showing off to each other. I think the last six years have seen them become way more emboldened.┬á
A local gang member who would also not be identified said there was no way anyone would be taking his patch, or ÔÇ£korowaiÔÇØ (ÔÇÖcloakÔÇÖ), off him.
He said he was a law-abiding citizen, as were many of his fellow gang members. He said he understood that people felt intimidated by patches, but said these tended to be people who had little or no contact with gang members and were under the impression they were all violent and/or criminal.
ÔÇ£Give me an instance with all the tangi of recent where a member of the public has been harmed? It didnÔÇÖt happen,ÔÇØ he said.
The man said there were more law-abiding gang members now ÔÇ£than ever beforeÔÇØ and police would be best served by laws that allowed them to treat gangs like they did any other group.
Scott Jefferson, whoÔÇÖs been a defence lawyer in HawkeÔÇÖs Bay since 1997, said the proposed law was ÔÇ£simply the whipping up of fears and insecurities in the wider public for political gainÔÇØ.
ÔÇ£The Bill will inevitably fall foul of the NZ Bill of Rights Act 1990, particularly s17 - ÔÇÿEveryone has the right too freedom of associationÔÇÖ. No wriggle room there,ÔÇØ he said.
Mayor Craig Little isnÔÇÖt a fan of gang patches in public places, but feels there are more productive uses of police time and resources than targeting gang members for wearing their patches.
ÔÇ£The problem is that we associate the patches with crime. But not everyone wearing those patches is a bad bugger. They might be in a gang associated with crime, but I work with the local gangs and thereÔÇÖs a lot of them doing good stuff and trying to make it better for their families,ÔÇØ he said.
ÔÇ£Look, in an ideal world we wouldnÔÇÖt have gangs, but we do, so we need to work with them. "
in order to be old & wise, you must first be young & stupid. (I'm still working on that.)