24-03-2022, 09:45 AM
(23-03-2022, 03:51 PM)Magoo Wrote: correct me if im wrong, and i often am
if we have no voting age
then no one will get to vote.
I'm already scared enough of hunni pointing out where I cock up words and punctuation.. Don't you start too.
(23-03-2022, 04:22 PM)Oh_hunnihunni Wrote: I agree. Everyone should vote if they wish to, but adults should have to.
Civic responsibility.
You never let me down.
(23-03-2022, 06:16 PM)Lilith7 Wrote: I've a couple of great grandkids who could be bribed with a Spiderman & a Dinosaur as to how they vote - almost 5 & almost 3....
I can see a whole new group of votes being hitched to which lot provides the best loot.
We need to have a voting age, due to human brains being especially stupid until properly developed - & yes, there is certainly an argument to be made that some never do, but most manage it eventually, mostly around the mid 20s.
Its just that I have this vision of hordes of young & stupid teenagers (I know, I used to be one) banding together on social media to vote for someone based on looks, or not vote based on dislike of hairstyle or something equally daft & shallow.
Adult voters vote for whoever provides the best loot and always have done. The idea that politicians then start pandering to the youth vote is no more or less an argument about politicians pandering to the Maori vote, or to the old/grey vote, or the Christian vote, etc etc. If the youth want ice cream, it's a cheap vote bought but it also doesn't create a bunch of negative consequences like promising the seabed to Maori would, or promising to double the NZ Super for the old, or promising to ban abortions for fundamentalist Christians.
As for the "developed brain" argument:
- Brains can deteriorate as early as 24, with cognitive speed dropping 15% for every 15 years after
- Once you get to your 60s, cognitive decline accelerates
- An "under-developed brain" doesn't mean that children cannot demonstrate agency and voice - I wholeheartedly believe that children should be treated as full persons, not adults-in-waiting
- And then there's the fact we agree on too that some adults don't seem to be able to engage their brain some or most of the time too, but we don't take the vote off of them (unless they're sentenced to more than three years in prison I think)
In fact, you can even vote stupidly. You can choose how you vote based on closing your eyes, sticking out your tongue and bringing the voting form to your face and choosing the name that's the most moist. You can vote for the candidate whose name sounds the least creepy. You can even choose to draw a penis on the ballot form and tick that as your political choice.
And as for the daft and shallow:
- "John Key seems like someone I can have a beer with."
- "Jacinda's not half bad looking though.."
- "Jacinda is a horse face"
- "Helen Clark's teeth look like a Christchurch cemetery after an earthquake"
- "Simon Bridges is quite nice to look at, isn't he?"
- All of the Clarke Gayford slander..
- After Shipley, Clark and now Ardern "Women shouldn't run the country"
- Not joking, there's a group of Wellington Protest participants in Southland that have created a new sub movement because they genuinely believe that the Wellington Protest failed because it was run by women (Voices For Freedom)
I do 100% understand your point of view, Lillith  I do think there'll be problems that arise if we abolish the voting age.. But I just don't believe they are:
- Problems that didn't already exist; and
- Problems that justify denying the right to have your voice counted in a democracy
(23-03-2022, 06:30 PM)Zurdo Wrote: I have an aversion about voting for major parties - way back, in a choice between the BIG 2 and a minor party, I voted for the minor party....it was called the Communist Party. Fun that night to see your actual vote come up on the board.
Children will be the same as my childish brain, unless they are formed into the mold of their elders, they will go with some obscure party they think is funny.
My daughter is going to be as childish as me. Faced with anti-mandate protesters at an intersection in Whangarei, I wound down the window of the car and boo'd them. 2 year old in the back seat asks "Why are you saying Boo daddy?" and I replied that the people outside the car don't believe in keeping people safe. "Why?" Because they have brains in the butts, I said. She started pointing at them through her window, shouting "BRAIN BUTTS! BRAIN BUTTS!".
She's going to be a great voter when she wants to vote.