Pro vs anti

[kiwi]

There are a number of people on social media who promote the idea of a flat Earth and try to prove it using science. Suppose the number of people posting this idea became more than half the world's population. Would you then follow suit? Because that is what you have said.

[king1]

There are a number of people on social media who promote the idea of a flat Earth and try to prove it using science. Suppose the number of people posting this idea became more than half the world's population. Would you then follow suit? Because that is what you have said.

well that explains why antivaxxer's seem completely bonkers to me, and no doubt the rest of the population - the twisted logic of that statement is just fit for purpose...  including flat earthers in your defense probably wasn't the best idea...

[kiwi]

You said I should just do what everyone else is doing. That is a very bad idea and flawed reasoning.

[king1]

You said I should just do what everyone else is doing. That is a very bad idea and flawed reasoning

The science is very clear about the benefits of vaccine in this case, for yourself and for others - the only reasoning you should be considering is why you are denying the science? 

or for you, is it more so as you have stated earlier, "I don't like being told what to do", which sadly imho is just an excuse in the middle of a global pandemic...

I don't know, maybe it serves your purpose to divert discussions away from actual facts towards technicalities in discussions...

[Kay2021]

You said I should just do what everyone else is doing. That is a very bad idea and flawed reasoning

The science is very clear about the benefits of vaccine in this case, for yourself and for others - the only reasoning you should be considering is why you are denying the science? 

or for you, is it more so as you have stated earlier, "I don't like being told what to do", which sadly imho is just an excuse in the middle of a global pandemic...

I don't know, maybe it serves your purpose to divert discussions away from actual facts towards technicalities in discussions...  Do you still not consider yourself an antivaxxer?

Looks like Omicron is changing the landscape.  Seems to be irrelevant whether you are vaccinated or not.  Cases so far considered to be mild.  In 30 countries now.  No deaths.  Could change, see what happens in future.  Cases are doubling or near doubling daily in South Africa.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

No one really likes being told what to do, especially if it is by people they don't like or respect. But the reality is we face a pandemic situation that poses a serious existential threat to large numbers of people and organisations. In such rare situations individuals have to reassess their personal response and consider the wider ramifications. This isn't an everyday scenario where our choice really has no impact on the wider community. Each choice comes with real consequences beyond ourselves, real consequences for family, for friends and for complete strangers. Minimising those consequences is why we closed borders, went into lockdowns, spent vast amounts of public money on vaccines and publicity campaigns, ramped up the health system, and seriously limited personal freedoms.

It is a war situation. Nothing less. We didn't ask for it, and there is absolutely nothing the individual can do to stop it. In such situations the pragmatic choice is to unite, rather than go against the mainstream.

[king1]

The science is very clear about the benefits of vaccine in this case, for yourself and for others - the only reasoning you should be considering is why you are denying the science? 

or for you, is it more so as you have stated earlier, "I don't like being told what to do", which sadly imho is just an excuse in the middle of a global pandemic...

I don't know, maybe it serves your purpose to divert discussions away from actual facts towards technicalities in discussions...  Do you still not consider yourself an antivaxxer?

Looks like Omicron is changing the landscape.  Seems to be irrelevant whether you are vaccinated or not.  Cases so far considered to be mild.  In 30 countries now.  No deaths.  Could change, see what happens in future.  Cases are doubling or near doubling daily in South Africa.

There is an awful lot of Delta out there still - and what comes after Omicron? 
I had you pegged from the first post didn't I?  

[Praktica]

We spend our whole lives doing what other people want - do you drive? Observe speed limits? Which side of the road do you drive on? Did you go to school? Who chose what you would learn? Do you bank, or shop? Queue at the checkout? We all have rules which we internalised when we were children. To object now that "somone wants me to be vaccinated - I don't want to because I'm free" is childish and foolish.

[Olive]

We spend our whole lives doing what other people want - do you drive? Observe speed limits? Which side of the road do you drive on? Did you go to school? Who chose what you would learn? Do you bank, or shop? Queue at the checkout? We all have rules which we internalised when we were children. To object now that "somone wants me to be vaccinated - I don't want to because I'm free" is childish and foolish.

I agree.  Well said.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

It is the price I think, for membership of a community. If we are happy to accept the benefits, then it seems only fair we pay the price without too much whinging. You are right, only children do not understand that everything comes at a price.

[Kay2021]

Looks like Omicron is changing the landscape.  Seems to be irrelevant whether you are vaccinated or not.  Cases so far considered to be mild.  In 30 countries now.  No deaths.  Could change, see what happens in future.  Cases are doubling or near doubling daily in South Africa.

There is an awful lot of Delta out there still - and what comes after Omicron? 
I had you pegged from the first post didn't I?  

There is a lot of Delta, at the rate Omicron is expanding in South Africa I doubt that will last, if it continues that way, its unknown.  As far as we know it is not here in New Zealand yet, so not making the comments with New Zealand in mind.   If you insist on pegging people then you will always be attaching to the same line.  Since Dec 5 I have been watching this virus, and I continue to do so.  Hang me, if you must, use those strong grip pegs though the others tend to snap in the gales.

[king1]

There is an awful lot of Delta out there still - and what comes after Omicron? 
I had you pegged from the first post didn't I?  

There is a lot of Delta, at the rate Omicron is expanding in South Africa I doubt that will last, if it continues that way, its unknown.  As far as we know it is not here in New Zealand yet, so not making the comments with New Zealand in mind.   If you insist on pegging people then you will always be attaching to the same line.  Since Dec 5 I have been watching this virus, and I continue to do so.  Hang me, if you must, use those strong grip pegs though the others tend to snap in the gales.

keep it factual, no misinformation and we will be fine

[Kay2021]

There is a lot of Delta, at the rate Omicron is expanding in South Africa I doubt that will last, if it continues that way, its unknown.  As far as we know it is not here in New Zealand yet, so not making the comments with New Zealand in mind.   If you insist on pegging people then you will always be attaching to the same line.  Since Dec 5 I have been watching this virus, and I continue to do so.  Hang me, if you must, use those strong grip pegs though the others tend to snap in the gales.

keep it factual, no misinformation and we will be fine

??  What does that mean?  I have not posted misinformation here or anywhere.  Since 24 Nov when Omicron was announced in SA the new daily cases have gone from 1,275 to 16,055 today, thats in 9 days.  Check for yourself.

[king1]

keep it factual, no misinformation and we will be fine

??  What does that mean?  I have not posted misinformation here or anywhere.  Since 24 Nov when Omicron was announced in SA the new daily cases have gone from 1,275 to 16,055 today, thats in 9 days.  Check for yourself.

You mentioned something about vaccines being irrelevant?  If that is not misinformation, I would love to know your reasoning...

[Kay2021]

??  What does that mean?  I have not posted misinformation here or anywhere.  Since 24 Nov when Omicron was announced in SA the new daily cases have gone from 1,275 to 16,055 today, thats in 9 days.  Check for yourself.

You mentioned something about vaccines being irrelevant?  If that is not misinformation, I would love to know your reasoning...

This is what I wrote:  " Looks like Omicron is changing the landscape.  Seems to be irrelevant whether you are vaccinated or not. "   Unvaccinated, vaccinated and previously infected with covid are being infected with Omicron.  Cases reported to be mild.  I also said that could change, its unknown.

[Lilith7]

It is the price I think, for membership of a community. If we are happy to accept the benefits, then it seems only fair we pay the price without too much whinging. You are right, only children do not understand that everything comes at a price.

I think those opposed would benefit from learning a bit about Polio & TB, & the havoc which both diseases wrought until brought under control by vaccination.

[Kay2021]

It is the price I think, for membership of a community. If we are happy to accept the benefits, then it seems only fair we pay the price without too much whinging. You are right, only children do not understand that everything comes at a price.

I think those opposed would benefit from learning a bit about Polio & TB, & the havoc which both diseases wrought until brought under control by vaccination.

Had the polio vaccine, was immune to TB so didn't need it.  One each way there.  Walking through the middle.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

Immunity changes as we age. It's part of the process. Fortunately TB it seems affects a certain socio economic group far more readily than the rest of us white middle class whoopsies, so with luck that immunity will last.

Nasty disease TB. But I believe covid kills quicker.

[Praktica]

TB can affect anybody, and until the 1950s there was no reliable treatment. Even now, antibiotic resistance makes it difficult to treat. In my research into my ancestors and relations, I found a surprising number who died of TB. I can remember having Heaf tests, BCG vaccine, and chest xrays, checking for TB.

[Lilith7]

Immunity changes as we age. It's part of the process. Fortunately TB it seems affects a certain socio economic group far more readily than the rest of us white middle class whoopsies, so with luck that immunity will last.

Nasty disease TB. But I believe covid kills quicker.

 Indeed - very common for quite a while, until they got it sorted - Katherine Mansfield died of it quite young I think. And they didn't realise that it was infectious for some years either.


I was reading a bit about Somerset Maugham, whose mother died when he was about three earlier today - she died of it & had been told by a Dr that childbirth was an excellent cure.
Bizarre, the ideas which once held sway.