Pope Francis asks forgiveness

[Lilith7]

The Pope has asked forgiveness from First Canadians & apologised for the years of abuse in residential schools. Around 3,000
 are thought to have died as a result of these schools.

I suppose it's a start, which is better than nothing at all. It will be a fine day when humans stop oppressing & abusing others in the name of their particular brand of religion.


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-62296834

"[b]In his first public remarks in Canada, Pope Francis has asked indigenous residential school survivors for forgiveness.[/b]
"I am deeply sorry," the Pope said on the grounds of a former residential school in Maskwacis, near Edmonton.
He said his apology is a first step, and that a "serious investigation" into abuses must occur to foster healing.


The government-funded schools were part of a policy meant to destroy indigenous cultures and languages.

The papal apology was received by applause from survivors in the audience, some of whom travelled far to hear the Pope speak.



Pope Francis expressed "sorrow, indignation and shame" for the actions of many members of the Roman Catholic Church, who ran and operated majority of residential schools in Canada.
The 85-year-old Pope called the schools system a "disastrous error" and asked for forgiveness "for the evil committed by so many Christians" against indigenous peoples.


The Pope said he travelled to Canada with a small pair of moccasins gifted to him by an indigenous delegation in the Vatican earlier in the year.
The moccasins, which the Pope was asked to return, serve as a symbol for the children who attended residential schools and never came home.


He said the moccasins also "speak to us of a path to follow", - that of justice, healing and reconciliation.



The schools operated from the 1870s, with the last one closing in 1996. In that period, around 150,000 First Nations, M├®tis and Inuit children were taken from their homes and placed in those schools."

[Oh_hunnihunni]

Australia, Ireland, Canada, USA, Africa, New Zealand, no doubt many Asian nations have endured the same culture theft, genocide, ethic cleansing by colonisation. There can be no forgiveness, only acceptance and determination to do better.

And yet we still have missionaries. And permit them to go out into the world.

[Zurdo]

It's always made good movies though - the British against these savage natives. America didn't need the British after they kicked them out...and so we grew up being fed Cowboys and Indians.

[Lilith7]

Australia, Ireland, Canada, USA, Africa, New Zealand,  no doubt many Asian nations have endured the same culture theft, genocide, ethic cleansing by colonisation. There can be no forgiveness, only acceptance and determination to do better.

And yet we still have missionaries. And permit them to go out into the world.

Excellent point - time to put a stop to missionaries, I think since  often they do more harm than good. Despite their alleged good intentions. And really, the very idea of forcing one's beliefs on others is repugnant.
You don't catch witches trying to impose their beliefs on anyone else.

Perhaps teaching comparative religions is the way to go, since some people apparently have a need for religion. I never really got that need for organised religion  but many have it.

---

It's always made good movies though - the British against these savage natives. America didn't need the British after they kicked them out...and so we grew up being fed Cowboys and Indians.

  Yes, it spawned an entire movie genre which must have made a fortune for lots of people; I used to love cowboy movies when I was a kid.

[Zurdo]

And then the world grew up...and we moved onto aliens. Funny how the aliens are always the bad guy...and always ugly. Good guys and bad guys...it just depends on which side of the lens you are.

Catholics haven't done well in the abuse category. And the Irish, suffering such abuse from the English....and then sending out Catholic priests to abuse children all over the world. No, they weren't all Irish...or even Catholic.

[Lilith7]

There's been massive damage done all around the world in the name of religion - whatever brand it happens to be, but Catholics have been especially bad. Apparently cardinal George Pell is now being taken to court by the father of one of his victims, a former choirboy.
He's not only suing Pell, but also the catholic church.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

I am all in favour of people choosing and owning their own faiths, politics, genders, identities, morals, and other preferences. I just object to them thinking theirs are better than anyone else's and imposing their rules on their neighbours.

It is selfish, arrogant,and deeply wrong.

[Lilith7]

I am all in favour of people choosing and owning their own faiths, politics, genders, identities, morals, and other preferences. I just object to them thinking theirs are better than anyone else's and imposing their rules on their neighbours.

It is selfish, arrogant,and deeply wrong.

Yep, that's the problem. 
Those who believe they've found the 'one true faith' can be a royal pain in the proverbial  as well as doing massive damage like that lot in Gloriavale.

I think that everyone should be free to believe whatever they want to - as long as they don't  harm anyone, don't try to force it onto others & don't expect other people to live according to their beliefs. And imo, all religions should be legally prevented from requiring their followers to have a particular type of clothing, hair or beard style.

And I believe they should all go through their 'holy books' with a fine tooth comb & remove any passages which advocate violence or discrimination & print new versions - while retaining the older ones as an example of where idiot humans can go wrong.

[Zurdo]

I think that everyone should be free to believe whatever they want to - as long as they don't  harm anyone, don't try to force it onto others & don't expect other people to live according to their beliefs. And imo, all religions should be legally prevented from requiring their followers to have a particular type of clothing, hair or beard style.

That would cover everything from schools to motorcycle gangs ! But some people just love to conform, they feel comfortable wearing the same clothes and haircuts as others around them.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

Uniforms are a strategy for control. The marketing blurb about creating a sense of identity and togetherness may be based on that very same level of comfort you mention but imposed rules about what can be worn is very different to people choosing to wear something that signals their affiliations. Regulation around dress is not the same as picking up the local team colours in your scarf, or choosing to wear a moko, or a Star of David, or a kilt, or even a different hairstyle.

If it was, then there wouldn't be such a fuss when a rebellious soul tries to do just that while wearing regulation dress. Remember the performance around facial tattoos on Navy officers? And how the upper echelons patted themselves on the back for 'allowing' it? Or the Police for permitting hijab? Certain schools furores over hair length? Concessions disguised as something they really are not...

[Lilith7]

Uniforms are a strategy for control. The marketing blurb about creating a sense of identity and togetherness may be based on that very same level of comfort you mention but imposed rules about what can be worn is very different to people choosing to wear something that signals their affiliations. Regulation around dress is not the same as picking up the local team colours in your scarf, or choosing to wear a moko, or a Star of David, or a kilt, or even a different hairstyle.

If it was, then there wouldn't be such a fuss when a rebellious soul tries to do just that while wearing regulation dress. Remember the performance around facial tattoos on Navy officers? And how the upper echelons patted themselves on the back for 'allowing' it? Or the Police for permitting hijab? Certain schools furores over hair length? Concessions disguised as something they really are not...

Our generation came up against this, probably for the first time back in the 60s/70s when our parents & those in authority of their generation objected to our hair length, style of clothing & choice of music - remember the uproar in America when John Lennon said the Beatles were more popular than Jesus!

Records, books, clothing featuring The Beatles were burnt across the country under the 'guidance' of church authorities. That probably gave most of us a little bit of insight into things such as the hysteria of the witch burnings & the anti Semitism of the Nazis a few centuries later.
And that was reinforced by the killings a few years later at Kent state university.   

Which were in response to student protests ( though not all those killed were protesters) against  war - which has its own form of control in the armed forces & at that time, the draft.