Dammit!

[Praktica]

Oh, and just an update, with daily treatment consisting of eye drops of yoghurt whey, my nasty conjunctivitis is just about cleared. Tomorrow with luck, I will be able to use my contacts and mucking about with knives in the kitchen will be less of an adventure. 

Great news. My partner is very impressed by the success of your biological warfare approach.

I have used a similar approach for sinus inflammation in the past using a preservative product that is marketed to butchers to minimise spoilage of sausages. I use it in the form of a nasal flush. It contains Lactobacillus sakei which is effective in helping rebalance the flora in the nasal respiratory region which relieves sinus inflammation in my case.

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The problem I have with homeopathy (and with most "alternative" practices) is the lack of proof of efficacy - and lack of explanation of possible modes of action. These things go back to a world where science was lacking, or very new, and knowledge was limited. Being old does make a treatment correct.

The problem with find scientific proof of 'alternative' practices is that are usually multifactorial and modern science has very much a reductionist approach. This is to eliminate all possible influencing factors but when many naturopathic treatment regimes have a number of modes of attack, often using naturally derived compounds that contain very many complex compounds the double blind method of testing tends to fall short. That's why many of these treatments are referred to as being 'traditional', they have proved themselves over the test of time not in a laboratory.

That sounds like special pleading - to excuse lack of proof of efficacy. Many natural substances claimed have pharmaceutical effects have been evaluated, and those with effects are used as drugs in medicine. I take a drug, metformin, derived from a plant - but you could use goat's rue, instead, and claim it was "natural".

[Oh_hunnihunni]

The problem with using the source material is simply a market driven issue. Firstly supply - we would need to grow millions of acres of monoculture to provide the herbs we need to process for the properties we need. It is more efficient to synthesise them by making chemically identical compounds. And putting those concentrated compounds into pills and liquids. More efficiently deliverable. And more profitable. But never lose sight of the fact that these are naturally occurring compounds, sophisticated processing owes its efficacy to the natural world, to the wisdom of hedge witchery acquired and transferred over generations of curious exploration and resting.

Unnatural is just a matter of process. Sticking close to the source form doesn't mean it doesn't work, it just works differently.

[SueDonim]

"Natural" would be to chew willow bark. "Medicine" takes the active ingredient (salicylic acid) and puts it in to convenient pills (Aspirin, Disprin, etc) that are standardised and exclude contaminants like possum pee. There is evidence that this is safe for most people and helps mitigate the painful effects of inflammation. This evidence has come from trials (research) and is not "proof", just "evidence". Future research could change the way we view this as we learn more and/or do different trials that might provide a new result.

Science is ongoing and is not about proof, just evidence. At any given time we go with the best evidence we have, and in today's world we are very lucky that the results from most of the trials are available to the majority of people on the computer. Now laymen just have to learn to search for credible information and read, understand and interpret it. In the meantime, we rely on professionals (eg doctors) to advise us.

[Magoo]

I agree. But it also pays not to treat doctors as gods, or to expect them to perform like them. Sometimes dying is the better option than modern medicine.

As for age related covid death stats, we need to remember that the older we get the more likely we are to die. Of anything. That is the way it is supposed to be.

not me. im going to try and live forever
its coming along swimmingly.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

"Natural" would be to chew willow bark. "Medicine" takes the active ingredient (salicylic acid) and puts it in to convenient pills (Aspirin, Disprin, etc) that are standardised and exclude contaminants like possum pee. There is evidence that this is safe for most people and helps mitigate the painful effects of inflammation. This evidence has come from trials (research) and is not "proof", just "evidence". Future research could change the way we view this as we learn more and/or do different trials that might provide a new result.

Science is ongoing and is not about proof, just evidence. At any given time we go with the best evidence we have, and in today's world we are very lucky that the results from most of the trials are available to the majority of people on the computer. Now laymen just have to learn to search for credible information and read, understand and interpret it. In the meantime, we rely on professionals (eg doctors) to advise us.

But it isn't willow in those pills. It is a laboratory constructed chemical compound that mimics salicylic acid.
To obtain enough from willow we would need vast acreages of those trees. Easier to analyse the source compound and reconstruct it.
Which does not mean willow doesn't still work to reduce fever and mute pain.
It's just easier to take a pill. Easier too to overdose, lol.

[harm_less]

The problem with using the source material is simply a market driven issue. Firstly supply - we would need to grow millions of acres of monoculture to provide the herbs we need to process for the properties we need. It is more efficient to synthesise them by making chemically identical compounds. And putting those concentrated compounds into pills and liquids. More efficiently deliverable. And more profitable.  But never lose sight of the fact that these are naturally occurring compounds, sophisticated processing owes its efficacy to the natural world, to the wisdom of hedge witchery acquired and transferred over generations of curious exploration and resting.

Unnatural is just a matter of process. Sticking close to the source form doesn't mean it doesn't work, it just works differently.

Not only a market driven issue but more so one of ownership. Far easier to patent a synthetic process than a natural substance. As in many situations it's usually a case of following the $$$.

[SueDonim]

"Natural" would be to chew willow bark. "Medicine" takes the active ingredient (salicylic acid) and puts it in to convenient pills (Aspirin, Disprin, etc) that are standardised and exclude contaminants like possum pee. There is evidence that this is safe for most people and helps mitigate the painful effects of inflammation. This evidence has come from trials (research) and is not "proof", just "evidence". Future research could change the way we view this as we learn more and/or do different trials that might provide a new result.

Science is ongoing and is not about proof, just evidence. At any given time we go with the best evidence we have, and in today's world we are very lucky that the results from most of the trials are available to the majority of people on the computer. Now laymen just have to learn to search for credible information and read, understand and interpret it. In the meantime, we rely on professionals (eg doctors) to advise us.

But it isn't willow in those pills. It is a laboratory constructed chemical compound that mimics salicylic acid.
To obtain enough from willow we would need vast acreages of those trees. Easier to analyse the source compound and reconstruct it.
Which does not mean willow doesn't still work to reduce fever and mute pain.
It's just easier to take a pill. Easier too to overdose, lol.

Yes, I should have covered the synthetic aspect - I thought it was a given. And yes, pills are easier to overdose, but at least you know how much of the active compound you are taking so can keep control.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

Very true. That's the very problem with adding a bit of extra spice to my brownies.

[Outsider]

I agree. But it also pays not to treat doctors as gods, or to expect them to perform like them. Sometimes dying is the better option than modern medicine.

As for age related covid death stats, we need to remember that the older we get the more likely we are to die. Of anything. That is the way it is supposed to be.

not me. im going to try and live forever
its coming along swimmingly.

So how old are you then?

[Magoo]

eleventy seven