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+--- Thread: Evolution, elephants, and trauma (/showthread.php?tid=717)
Evolution, elephants, and trauma - Oh_hunnihunni - 19-11-2021
Absolutely fascinating article in the NY Times about how ivory poaching is directly impacting the evolutionary adaptations of elephants, in ways that not only let them escape the carnage by poachers, but may also prove a catastrophe for the species.
The second intriguing suggestion in the article is around how trauma can affect the genome, something theorists have proposed over the years is evident in the generational transmission of traumatic race memory among human beings.
Well worth the read, and not too scientific to be a challenge for us lay people...
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/21/science/tuskless-elephants-evolution.html?mc=aud_dev&campaign_id=23849418590960063&ad-keywords=auddevgate&subid1=TAFI&adset_id=23849522406390063&ad_id=23849522406520063&ad_name=INTER_20_XXXX_XXX_1P_CD_XX_XX_SITEVISITXREM_X_XXXX_COALL_P_X_X_EN_FBIG_OA_XXXX_00_EN_JP_NFLINKS&adset_name=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2021%2F10%2F21%2Fscience%2Ftuskless-elephants-evolution.html&fbclid=IwAR1alFCdyh4Tbg4X-R6e1Uh6T7h_E9PtLiSUna8_8NpGolxldsMbTD_ZdQA
RE: Evolution, elephants, and trauma - Lilith7 - 19-11-2021
(19-11-2021, 12:58 PM)Oh_hunnihunni Wrote: Absolutely fascinating article in the NY Times about how ivory poaching is directly impacting the evolutionary adaptations of elephants, in ways that not only let them escape the carnage by poachers, but may also prove a catastrophe for the species.  I hope elephants are able to survive without tusks i& I wonder whether this will affect their diet to a large extent or if they can adapt somehow. Interesting that longhorn sheep are also now having shorter horns as a result of trophy hunters targeting those with larger horns.
The second intriguing suggestion in the article is around how trauma can affect the genome, something theorists have proposed over the years is evident in the generational transmission of traumatic race memory among human beings.
Well worth the read, and not too scientific to be a challenge for us lay people...
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/21/science/tuskless-elephants-evolution.html?mc=aud_dev&campaign_id=23849418590960063&ad-keywords=auddevgate&subid1=TAFI&adset_id=23849522406390063&ad_id=23849522406520063&ad_name=INTER_20_XXXX_XXX_1P_CD_XX_XX_SITEVISITXREM_X_XXXX_COALL_P_X_X_EN_FBIG_OA_XXXX_00_EN_JP_NFLINKS&adset_name=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2021%2F10%2F21%2Fscience%2Ftuskless-elephants-evolution.html&fbclid=IwAR1alFCdyh4Tbg4X-R6e1Uh6T7h_E9PtLiSUna8_8NpGolxldsMbTD_ZdQA
RE: Evolution, elephants, and trauma - Magoo - 19-11-2021
(19-11-2021, 02:03 PM)Lilith7 Wrote:Im too lazy to read the article. But not so lazy as to not proffer my learned opinion.(19-11-2021, 12:58 PM)Oh_hunnihunni Wrote: Absolutely fascinating article in the NY Times about how ivory poaching is directly impacting the evolutionary adaptations of elephants, in ways that not only let them escape the carnage by poachers, but may also prove a catastrophe for the species.  I hope elephants are able to survive without tusks i& I wonder whether this will affect their diet to a large extent or if they can adapt somehow. Interesting that longhorn sheep are also now having shorter horns as a result of trophy hunters targeting those with larger horns.
The second intriguing suggestion in the article is around how trauma can affect the genome, something theorists have proposed over the years is evident in the generational transmission of traumatic race memory among human beings.
Well worth the read, and not too scientific to be a challenge for us lay people...
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/21/science/tuskless-elephants-evolution.html?mc=aud_dev&campaign_id=23849418590960063&ad-keywords=auddevgate&subid1=TAFI&adset_id=23849522406390063&ad_id=23849522406520063&ad_name=INTER_20_XXXX_XXX_1P_CD_XX_XX_SITEVISITXREM_X_XXXX_COALL_P_X_X_EN_FBIG_OA_XXXX_00_EN_JP_NFLINKS&adset_name=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2021%2F10%2F21%2Fscience%2Ftuskless-elephants-evolution.html&fbclid=IwAR1alFCdyh4Tbg4X-R6e1Uh6T7h_E9PtLiSUna8_8NpGolxldsMbTD_ZdQA
All the biggest horns are hunted and killed, removed from the brood herd. This decreases the size of the horns by genetics, its not adaptatiion or evolutionary process.
Furthermore by the end of most seasons the biggest horns have been hunted, with only small ones left to count.
RE: Evolution, elephants, and trauma - harm_less - 19-11-2021
(19-11-2021, 03:53 PM)Magoo Wrote:NY Times article is firewalled so unable to view it. I agree with Magoo's take on the situation except evolution will play a part as culling of large horned/tusked individuals will remove their genetic input from the population, in the same way environmentally disadvantaged traits will decrease over time.(19-11-2021, 02:03 PM)Lilith7 Wrote:   I hope elephants are able to survive without tusks i& I wonder whether this will affect their diet to a large extent or if they can adapt somehow. Interesting that longhorn sheep are also now having shorter horns as a result of trophy hunters targeting those with larger horns.Im too lazy to read the article. But not so lazy as to not proffer my learned opinion.
All the biggest horns are hunted and killed, removed from the brood herd. This decreases the size of the horns by genetics, its not adaptatiion or evolutionary process.
Furthermore by the end of most seasons the biggest horns have been hunted, with only small ones left to count.
RE: Evolution, elephants, and trauma - Lilith7 - 19-11-2021
(19-11-2021, 05:07 PM)harm_less Wrote:(19-11-2021, 03:53 PM)Magoo Wrote: Im too lazy to read the article. But not so lazy as to not proffer my learned opinion.NY Times article is firewalled so unable to view it. I agree with Magoo's take on the situation except evolution will play a part as culling of large horned/tusked individuals will remove their genetic input from the population, in the same way environmentally disadvantaged traits will decrease over time.
All the biggest horns are hunted and killed, removed from the brood herd. This decreases the size of the horns by genetics, its not adaptatiion or evolutionary process.
Furthermore by the end of most seasons the biggest horns have been hunted, with only small ones left to count.
It wasn't firewalled for me, no problem reading it.
RE: Evolution, elephants, and trauma - harm_less - 19-11-2021
(19-11-2021, 06:03 PM)Lilith7 Wrote:So, the obvious question is whether you are a subscriber to the NY Times or one of their affiliates?(19-11-2021, 05:07 PM)harm_less Wrote: NY Times article is firewalled so unable to view it. I agree with Magoo's take on the situation except evolution will play a part as culling of large horned/tusked individuals will remove their genetic input from the population, in the same way environmentally disadvantaged traits will decrease over time.
It wasn't firewalled for me, no problem reading it.
RE: Evolution, elephants, and trauma - Oh_hunnihunni - 19-11-2021
Interesting that there is a correlated genetic change in that fewer surviving males are being born to tuskless females.
The article is worth the read. And no, I am subscribed but not a paying sub.
Evolution is a process of genetic change. Survival of the fittest. Natural selection. This is evolution.
RE: Evolution, elephants, and trauma - Lilith7 - 20-11-2021
(19-11-2021, 06:09 PM)harm_less Wrote:No, it was just there to read so perhaps they do the odd article without that from time to time. It would make good sense.(19-11-2021, 06:03 PM)Lilith7 Wrote: It wasn't firewalled for me, no problem reading it.So, the obvious question is whether you are a subscriber to the NY Times or one of their affiliates?