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+--- Thread: Bloomfield approves mass fluoridation of our water supply (/showthread.php?tid=1482)
Bloomfield approves mass fluoridation of our water supply - C_T_Russell - 01-08-2022
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/300647397/dr-ashley-bloomfield-orders-14-councils-water-supplies-to-be-fluoridated
This is the legacy that Bloomfield has left us with, mass medication with a poison namely hexafluorosilicic acid in our drinking water, all in a lame effort to "try" and prevent tooth decay in a minor demographic of kids whos uneducated parents think giving their kids soft drinks is good for them.
It aint going to make a scrap of difference how much of this shit they put in the water if these kids keep drinking coke and dont brush their teeth.
And to make things worse, most water filters cant remove it effectively, so those that dont want to drink this in our water have no choice.
This is mass medication which is a breach of our bill of rights. And people are wondering why we are seeing levels of dementia on the rise? Its no wonder.
RE: Bloomfield approves mass poisoning of our water with fluoride - king1 - 01-08-2022
Good, as a ratepayer, anything that will minimise costs to society in terms of dental care is a good thing. Fluoridation of water supplies is well proven to reduce teeth decay.
Kids have been drinking coke and not brushing teeth for 50 years plus so I don't buy your argument about that being the cause... and you do have a choice, you can buy bottled water...
Admin Note: Thread title has been amended, to be not so conspiracy theory 'ish... (Removed allegation of Dr Bloomfield poisoning the masses)
RE: Bloomfield approves mass fluoridation of our water supply - Olive - 01-08-2022
I trust Dr Bloomfield a million times more than I trust any random conspiracy theorist.
RE: Bloomfield approves mass fluoridation of our water supply - Praktica - 01-08-2022
A good thing too - it's time that the ignorant were ignored, when setting public policy.
RE: Bloomfield approves mass fluoridation of our water supply - SueDonim - 01-08-2022
(01-08-2022, 12:43 PM)C_T_Russell Wrote: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/300647397/dr-ashley-bloomfield-orders-14-councils-water-supplies-to-be-fluoridated
This is the legacy that Bloomfield has left us with, mass medication with a poison namely hexafluorosilicic acid in our drinking water, all in a lame effort to "try" and prevent tooth decay in a minor demographic of kids whos uneducated parents think giving their kids soft drinks is good for them.
It aint going to make a scrap of difference how much of this shit they put in the water if these kids keep drinking coke and dont brush their teeth.
And to make things worse, most water filters cant remove it effectively, so those that dont want to drink this in our water have no choice.
This is mass medication which is a breach of our bill of rights. And people are wondering why we are seeing levels of dementia on the rise? Its no wonder.
On one level I have never felt comfortable with the concept of mass medication to fix a parenting problem. When I was born good parenting included the pregnant woman buying and taking fluoride tablets to ensure the good health of the baby's teeth. Then after birth, the child took the tablets until age 12. My teeth and mind are both fine.
Today that's not necessary as nearly all toothpastes have fluoride in them so all parents need to do is teach their kids to clean their teeth. And preferably lay off the  sugar/acid drinks.
But, on another level, since that doesn't happen in so many households, and since the small amounts of fluoride added to water supplies don't seem to be doing any harm, I have to admit that maybe it's something that unfortunately we need to accept. There were past concerns about neurological effects including dementia, but it's hard to find any current evidence either way.
Overall I think the huge societal cost we have of people going into adulthood with bad teeth far outweighs any risk from fluoridation. Dental health has a huge impact on overall health and we just can't afford to let the current state continue, much as I would prefer to push the parenting issues back onto the parents. We can't fix stupid, whether it's dental care or mask-wearing. Those of us who are aware and try to do the right thing will always suffer impacts from people who just don't care. So as far as fluoridation goes, I'm now fairly resigned to the fact that it's going to happen. And wonder whether Bloomfield did what he had to do, but waited until his successor would have to pick up the flak.
RE: Bloomfield approves mass fluoridation of our water supply - harm_less - 01-08-2022
Our house's water falls out of the sky without any added fluoride and we have a very low sugar diet and use toothpaste that contains fluoride. The powers that be can do whatever they like to the towny's water supply so long as the cost of doing so doesn't creep into our council rates as we don't partake of their 'dental decay inhibiting water'. What ever happened to self-responsibility in regard to protecting your own health by not sticking refined and sweetened shit in our mouths!
On a related note when are we going to see moves towards taxing sugar added drinks. That will have a much better impact on tooth decay levels in the young and/or economically disadvantaged.
RE: Bloomfield approves mass fluoridation of our water supply - Olive - 01-08-2022
(01-08-2022, 04:32 PM)harm_less Wrote: .... What ever happened to self-responsibility in regard to protecting your own health by not sticking refined and sweetened shit in our mouths!
On a related note when are we going to see moves towards taxing sugar added drinks. That will have a much better impact on tooth decay levels in the young and/or economically disadvantaged.
I agree that adults should take responsibility for their own health, but the big benefit of water fluoridation is for young children, who cannot be expected to resist the heavy marketing of sweets and soft drinks. I can still remember that when I was at primary school and forbidden by my parents to eat sweets, I would use my lunch money to buy sweets instead of the fruit that I was supposed to be buying. And I was a pretty well behaved child. We all did it. My teeth suffered as a consequence because there was no fluoridation back then.
RE: Bloomfield approves mass fluoridation of our water supply - harm_less - 01-08-2022
(01-08-2022, 07:01 PM)Olive Wrote:Probably it was more relevant that toothpastes weren't fluoridated back then. Topical application of fluoride as is the case when you 'paint' it onto your actual teeth is a far more effective dental decay protection method than taking it systemically via drinking water.(01-08-2022, 04:32 PM)harm_less Wrote: .... What ever happened to self-responsibility in regard to protecting your own health by not sticking refined and sweetened shit in our mouths!
On a related note when are we going to see moves towards taxing sugar added drinks. That will have a much better impact on tooth decay levels in the young and/or economically disadvantaged.
I agree that adults should take responsibility for their own health, but the big benefit of water fluoridation is for young children, who cannot be expected to resist the heavy marketing of sweets and soft drinks.  I can still remember that when I was at primary school and forbidden by my parents to eat  sweets, I would use my lunch money to buy sweets instead of the fruit that I was supposed to be buying.  And I was a pretty well behaved child.  We all did it.  My teeth suffered as a consequence because there was no fluoridation back then.
Have you ever noticed that fluoridated toothpastes carry a bold "Do Not Swallow" warning? The stuff is a recognised toxin, but not when they put it in our drinking water for some reason???.
RE: Bloomfield approves mass fluoridation of our water supply - SueDonim - 01-08-2022
(01-08-2022, 09:18 PM)harm_less Wrote:(01-08-2022, 07:01 PM)Olive Wrote: I agree that adults should take responsibility for their own health, but the big benefit of water fluoridation is for young children, who cannot be expected to resist the heavy marketing of sweets and soft drinks.  I can still remember that when I was at primary school and forbidden by my parents to eat  sweets, I would use my lunch money to buy sweets instead of the fruit that I was supposed to be buying.  And I was a pretty well behaved child.  We all did it.  My teeth suffered as a consequence because there was no fluoridation back then.Probably it was more relevant that toothpastes weren't fluoridated back then. Topical application of fluoride as is the case when you 'paint' it onto your actual teeth is a far more effective dental decay protection method than taking it systemically via drinking water.
Have you ever noticed that fluoridated toothpastes carry a bold "Do Not Swallow" warning? The stuff is a recognised toxin, but not when they put it in our drinking water for some reason???.
Like many potential toxins that we ingest, a small amount (as in water) has the desired benefit, while a large amount (as in toothpaste) is a problem if ingested.
It's well known that the amount of fluoride in a whole tube of toothpaste is dangerous. Most toothpastes are also full of SLS which is something I don't want to ingest and do avoid. But I suspect most people are unaware of it.
RE: Bloomfield approves mass fluoridation of our water supply - king1 - 01-08-2022
(01-08-2022, 09:18 PM)harm_less Wrote:Like everything, it's all in the dosage - oxygen is toxic if you have too higher dose of it...  (01-08-2022, 07:01 PM)Olive Wrote: I agree that adults should take responsibility for their own health, but the big benefit of water fluoridation is for young children, who cannot be expected to resist the heavy marketing of sweets and soft drinks.  I can still remember that when I was at primary school and forbidden by my parents to eat  sweets, I would use my lunch money to buy sweets instead of the fruit that I was supposed to be buying.  And I was a pretty well behaved child.  We all did it.  My teeth suffered as a consequence because there was no fluoridation back then.Probably it was more relevant that toothpastes weren't fluoridated back then. Topical application of fluoride as is the case when you 'paint' it onto your actual teeth is a far more effective dental decay protection method than taking it systemically via drinking water.
Have you ever noticed that fluoridated toothpastes carry a bold "Do Not Swallow" warning? The stuff is a recognised toxin, but not when they put it in our drinking water for some reason???.
From what I can gather you would need to eat a few tubes of toothpaste before you get even mild symptoms...
RE: Bloomfield approves mass fluoridation of our water supply - SueDonim - 01-08-2022
(01-08-2022, 09:30 PM)king1 Wrote:(01-08-2022, 09:18 PM)harm_less Wrote: Probably it was more relevant that toothpastes weren't fluoridated back then. Topical application of fluoride as is the case when you 'paint' it onto your actual teeth is a far more effective dental decay protection method than taking it systemically via drinking water.Like everything, it's all in the dosage - oxygen is toxic if you have too higher dose of it...  
Have you ever noticed that fluoridated toothpastes carry a bold "Do Not Swallow" warning? The stuff is a recognised toxin, but not when they put it in our drinking water for some reason???.
From what I can gather you would need to eat a few tubes of toothpaste before you get even mild symptoms...
I had always thought that a single tube could kill a kid but now realise that that is disinformation from the antis. I think you are right, it does take a few tubes to be a problem. Not so sure about the amount of SLS though. I don't really want to ingest any of that!
RE: Bloomfield approves mass fluoridation of our water supply - C_T_Russell - 03-08-2022
(01-08-2022, 09:18 PM)harm_less Wrote:Yup, but ironically on the ISS, the astronauts swallow theirs because they "cant" spit it out in space, probably to do with hygiene reasons more than anything, you wouldnt want that floating around!(01-08-2022, 07:01 PM)Olive Wrote: I agree that adults should take responsibility for their own health, but the big benefit of water fluoridation is for young children, who cannot be expected to resist the heavy marketing of sweets and soft drinks.  I can still remember that when I was at primary school and forbidden by my parents to eat  sweets, I would use my lunch money to buy sweets instead of the fruit that I was supposed to be buying.  And I was a pretty well behaved child.  We all did it.  My teeth suffered as a consequence because there was no fluoridation back then.Probably it was more relevant that toothpastes weren't fluoridated back then. Topical application of fluoride as is the case when you 'paint' it onto your actual teeth is a far more effective dental decay protection method than taking it systemically via drinking water.
Have you ever noticed that fluoridated toothpastes carry a bold "Do Not Swallow" warning? The stuff is a recognised toxin, but not when they put it in our drinking water for some reason???.
Fluoride only works topically, and you need a much higher amount like the levels in toothpaste to work.
Also the natural form most found in nature is calcium fluoride, its mechanism of action is different but actually works better, there are some toothpastes that even use it, Colgate also have products that use tin fluoride too.
(01-08-2022, 09:30 PM)king1 Wrote:The main issue is it builds up in your body over time, might only be a few parts per million, but your body absorbs it and I think it goes to your bones, and possibly your brain, the theory is that the fluoride is what binds to other metals such as aluminum, which was linked to dementia at one point, but it seems that other factors may be at play and that its the fluoride that actually is an agent that combines with the aluminum to interfere with your neurons.(01-08-2022, 09:18 PM)harm_less Wrote: Probably it was more relevant that toothpastes weren't fluoridated back then. Topical application of fluoride as is the case when you 'paint' it onto your actual teeth is a far more effective dental decay protection method than taking it systemically via drinking water.Like everything, it's all in the dosage - oxygen is toxic if you have too higher dose of it...  
Have you ever noticed that fluoridated toothpastes carry a bold "Do Not Swallow" warning? The stuff is a recognised toxin, but not when they put it in our drinking water for some reason???.
From what I can gather you would need to eat a few tubes of toothpaste before you get even mild symptoms...
Only time will tell.
RE: Bloomfield approves mass fluoridation of our water supply - Praktica - 03-08-2022
(03-08-2022, 06:16 PM)C_T_Russell Wrote: The main issue is it builds up in your body over time, might only be a few parts per million, but your body absorbs it and I think it goes to your bones, and possibly your brain, the theory is that the fluoride is what binds to other metals such as aluminum, which was linked to dementia at one point, but it seems that other factors may be at play and that its the fluoride that actually is an agent that combines with the aluminum to interfere with your neurons.Any proof of this? Or is it just another of your ignorant reckons?
Only time will tell."
RE: Bloomfield approves mass fluoridation of our water supply - harm_less - 03-08-2022
(03-08-2022, 08:04 PM)Praktica Wrote:Take your pick:(03-08-2022, 06:16 PM)C_T_Russell Wrote: "The main issue is it builds up in your body over time, might only be a few parts per million, but your body absorbs it and I think it goes to your bones, and possibly your brain, the theory is that the fluoride is what binds to other metals such as aluminum, which was linked to dementia at one point, but it seems that other factors may be at play and that its the fluoride that actually is an agent that combines with the aluminum to interfere with your neurons.Any proof of this? Or is it just another of your ignorant reckons?
Only time will tell."
https://ehjournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12940-019-0551-x
https://mdpi-res.com/d_attachment/applsci/applsci-10-02885/article_deploy/applsci-10-02885.pdf?version=1587561112
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/features/fluoride-childrens-health-grandjean-choi/
RE: Bloomfield approves mass fluoridation of our water supply - king1 - 03-08-2022
Those studies seem to be referring to areas where there are high levels of fluoride in the groundwater - presumably the introduced doses are going to be at safe levels - the level of dosage is all important...
RE: Bloomfield approves mass fluoridation of our water supply - harm_less - 03-08-2022
(03-08-2022, 09:21 PM)king1 Wrote: Those studies seem to be referring to areas where there are high levels of fluoride in the groundwater - presumably the introduced doses are going to be at safe levels - the level of dosage is all important...If that's the case then how do the MoH or Councils know how much water each individual is consuming? Though for a cumulative toxin it's the total consumed over time that is important not the rate at which it is consumed at.
RE: Bloomfield approves mass fluoridation of our water supply - king1 - 03-08-2022
(03-08-2022, 10:53 PM)harm_less Wrote:Well you could probably start with the recommended eight(?) glasses a day and work back from there.  I'm quite sure they will have stats on that one.  Cumulative amount is only one aspect, you also need to consider the actual dose ingested, and the human body ability to break it down. (03-08-2022, 09:21 PM)king1 Wrote: Those studies seem to be referring to areas where there are high levels of fluoride in the groundwater - presumably the introduced doses are going to be at safe levels - the level of dosage is all important...If that's the case then how do the MoH or Councils know how much water each individual is consuming? Though for a cumulative toxin it's the total consumed over time that is important not the rate at which it is consumed at.
I am no expert on the matter though, but I did grow up in Waimari District where they were fluoridating the water for 20 odd years and i'm still alive,  that's all I can go by...
RE: Bloomfield approves mass fluoridation of our water supply - king1 - 03-08-2022
https://www.cancer.org/healthy/cancer-causes/chemicals/water-fluoridation-and-cancer-risk.html#:~:text=The%20US%20Environmental%20Protection%20Agency,builds%20up%20in%20the%20bones.
Safe level is 4.0 mg/L apparently...
RE: Bloomfield approves mass fluoridation of our water supply - C_T_Russell - 09-08-2022
Well brushing our teeth with fluoride toothpaste contains more than that quite easily, but obviously you are supposed to spit out, so the high concentration remains on your teeth. That way we dont need un-necessary amounts of fluoride going into our bodies.
Ive been doing a bit of research on the subject and it seems its a bit debatable on how well fluoride even works these days, I see there are much more advanced toothpastes that have other agents to help calcium remineralise onto teeth.
Just google nano-hydroxyapatite and tri calcium phosphate toothpastes.
My parents have way more fillings in their teeth and they grew up with fluoridated water supplies, but i grew up with fluoride toothpaste and have much healthier teeth.
It obviously does something, but drinking the stuff has little benefit.