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+--- Thread: National wants to 'get tough on crime.' Again. (/showthread.php?tid=1405)
National wants to 'get tough on crime.' Again. - Lilith7 - 11-06-2022
It seems that every time there's an election within cooee, National starts banging the worn old ' lock them up & throw away the key' drum in a blatant attempt to gain votes from voters who don't understand that it doesn't work.
This time they want to copy Australian 'anti consorting laws'. Which don't work all that well over there.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300610874/we-need-action-against-gangs-right-now-chris-luxon-details-new-gang-plan
"He also said police should have the power to issue ÔÇ£consorting prohibitionÔÇØ orders, making it illegal for identified gang members with a criminal record from meeting or communicating with each other. These consorting prohibition orders could be issued to anyone with a category 3 or 4 criminal conviction ÔÇô this includes aggravated assault or a third drink-driving conviction, up to murder."
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-03-17/anti-consorting-laws-wont-stop-bikie-violence-in-canberra/10908048
A former bikie, who was one of the first to be charged under NSW's anti-consorting laws, says they stop bikies from hanging out in public but do nothing to stop the secret planning of crime.
Experts have backed a retired bikie's view that anti-consorting laws in the ACT would not stop gang violence, saying they had not worked elsewhere in Australia.
He said criminals had instead gone "underground" and, as a result, the authorities were "less knowledgeable about who's who and who's not".
"It's made the dumb c**** become smart. It's led to a reduction of weak people joining [the gangs], not hard criminals," he said.
"They're the people you don't want anyway, they're the ones the police want to infiltrate gangs because when they get done, they roll, so if anything, the police just upper-cutted themselves."
https://rlc.org.au/article/consorting-laws-%E2%80%93-impact-vulnerable-people
"In spite of the majority of submissions received recommending that consorting be repealed, the Ombudsman has recommended to Government that consorting laws remain but that the laws should not apply to children under 17, and that changes be made to police policy. These recommendations do not go far enough in protecting the community from these broad and undemocratic laws.
Consorting makes it a criminal offence to continue to associate or communicate with people who have previously been convicted of an indictable offence, after having received an official warning from police.  An indictable offence is any offence punishable by two years imprisonment, and includes shoplifting, robbery, assault and damaging property. 
Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples, young people, and those experiencing homelessness were found by the Ombudsman to be disproportionately targeted by police, despite any evidence of engaging in serious or organised crime.
The disproportionate impact on vulnerable people identified by the review aligns with the experience of clients at Redfern Legal Centre. We have found that warnings, or the threat of a warning, are frequently issued to young people (many of whom are Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander) simply for being in a public space.
The OmbudsmanÔÇÖs recommendations do not however go far enough and do not address the fundamental problems with the law. Consorting will continue to criminalise otherwise lawful behaviour, because there is no requirement that the consorting be done for a criminal purpose. People will continue to be punished just for associating with anyone who is a convicted offender."
RE: National wants to 'get tough on crime.' Again. - Lilith7 - 12-06-2022
And today even a former National party minister is also saying that it won't work.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300610969/it-will-not-work-excop-and-national-mp-says-partys-gang-policy-is-made-for-headlines
As the MP for Whanganui, former National Party minister Chester BorrowsÔÇï introduced a bill to ban gang patches in the city.
His bill was a futile and ultimately ineffective measure, the former Courts Minister says, 13 years after the WanganuiÔÇï District Council (Prohibition of Gang Insignia) Bill was passed into law.
Borrows, who is also a former police officer and current member of the Parole Board, is now criticising his former party ÔÇô saying its latest proposal to curb gang crime was designed for ÔÇ£big headlinesÔÇØ and would be mostly ineffectual in practice.
As gang crime re-enters the headlines, National is calling to outlaw the display of gang patches across the country ÔÇô and it wants to go a step further, into cyberspace.
National wants to make it illegal to share or post content on social media which could be deemed pro-gang. National police spokesperson Mark Mitchell says a crackdown on social media could reduce the number of gang recruits."
That just won't work; they can't even manage to prevent racism online, or hate speech or trolls.
RE: National wants to 'get tough on crime.' Again. - king1 - 12-06-2022
yep someone is in la la land if they think they can impose rules on social media
RE: National wants to 'get tough on crime.' Again. - Zurdo - 12-06-2022
Nah, it won't work of course - but the right wing National supporters will love it, gotta get tough ! Bring back Crusher Collins ! They tried it in the '70's...we weren't allowed to ride with more than 3 in a group. That's probably still a law. Gang culture needs to change from the inside, and the gang elders can see this, it's what they want to do.
RE: National wants to 'get tough on crime.' Again. - Olive - 12-06-2022
I think Harry Tam has accomplished more to damp down gang warfare than any political party, but the S. 501 gang member deportees are driving it beyond his reach in many ways because they are importing vicious Australian gangs like Comancheros and Banditios.
RE: National wants to 'get tough on crime.' Again. - Lilith7 - 12-06-2022
(12-06-2022, 07:19 PM)Olive Wrote: I think Harry Tam has accomplished more to damp down gang warfare than any political party, but the S.  501 gang member deportees are driving it beyond his reach in many ways because they are importing vicious Australian gangs like Comancheros and Banditios.That's a good point - I'd forgotten about him. And others as well. This woman was on the 3 news tonight.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2022/06/hawke-s-bay-woman-determined-to-break-intergenerational-trauma-cycle-by-helping-mongrel-mob-members-and-their-families.html
"Hawke's Bay woman Cherie Kurarangi says she was born into gang life. Her family were in the Mongrel Mob and she grew up in it.
It wasn't easy, in fact, she said she has both witnessed and experienced intergenerational trauma.
But she's dedicating her life to breaking that cycle for her whanau and to making Aotearoa a better place.Kurarangi knows that life in the Mongrel Mob can be tough and sometimes brutal, so she's turned her home into a place of refuge.
"We're not emergency housing. We're crisis accommodation. We come for you when there's a massive crisis coming on. We're crisis accommodation."
Kurarangi helps Mongrel Mob gang members and their wh─ünau, but she maintains she's actually doing all of us in society a favour.
"Let me tell you something right now. Every single person in New Zealand knows somebody who knows somebody who's a gang member. So guess what - you're all affiliated."
RE: National wants to 'get tough on crime.' Again. - Oh_hunnihunni - 13-06-2022
I think many people fail to understand that gangs are families. And some people will always need to be part of a family, no matter how harsh a life that family might offer. Human beings are social creatures, we all find our tribes. The trick just might be to provide more attractive ones...
RE: National wants to 'get tough on crime.' Again. - Lilith7 - 13-06-2022
(13-06-2022, 10:02 AM)Oh_hunnihunni Wrote: I think many people fail to understand that gangs are families. And some people will always need to be part of a family, no matter how harsh a life that family might offer. Human beings are social creatures, we all find our tribes. The trick just might be to provide more attractive ones...Agreed. For some, the gangs  are sometimes  the family they didn't have & even with the drawbacks, belonging is worth the price.