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+--- Thread: The 501s (/showthread.php?tid=1404)
The 501s - Oldfellah - 10-06-2022
Im not really up with politics and I will be the first to admit it because it has never interested me but with Australia deporting these people that have been there since they were perhaps 3 or 4 years old why cant we just turn round and just say NO! Yes I understand that they are New Zealand citizens by birth but that is about it as they have no attachment to this country what so ever. Why wont we send Aussie criminals back there as in tit for tat and why wont we send criminals born in the Islands back home? There must be a reason for it so can someone please enlighten me.
RE: The 501s - Olive - 10-06-2022
The Bill of Rights Act 1990 S. 18 provides this:
" Freedom of movement
(1)
Everyone lawfully in New Zealand has the right to freedom of movement and residence in New Zealand.
(2)
Every New Zealand citizen has the right to enter New Zealand."
RE: The 501s - Lilith7 - 10-06-2022
(10-06-2022, 02:59 PM)Olive Wrote: The Bill of Rights Act 1990 S. 18 provides this:Yes, & that means we have no choice but to take them.
" Freedom of movement
(1)
Everyone lawfully in New Zealand has the right to freedom of movement and residence in New Zealand.
(2)
Every New Zealand citizen has the right to enter New Zealand."
And we really shouldn't descend to their level despite how tempting it might be to do likewise. Perhaps with a new govt in time, they might begin to understand the damage being done by this idiotic, cruel policy.
RE: The 501s - king1 - 11-06-2022
to some extent the Aussies are exploiting the bill of rights act, under international law I believe you cannot deport anyone if they have nowhere to go... We would need an exception to that law - maybe
"(3) EXCEPT, when they have not lived in NZ for 15 years and are being deported from Aussie under S501"
But I agree with you oldfellah, it is dumb deporting someone who has lived there all their lives, has partner and kid in Aussie, and no ties to NZ
RE: The 501s - Oldfellah - 11-06-2022
(11-06-2022, 10:03 AM)king1 Wrote: to some extent the Aussies are exploiting the bill of rights act, under international law I believe you cannot deport anyone if they have nowhere to go...  We would need an exception to that law - maybeAbsolutely these people have grown up there have paid taxes (hopefully)  and because they commit crimes Australia want to send them back, fair enough send them back but also give us the tax they have given to the Aussie government over the years, Im afraid we have to stop being woke about it and get tougher, this thing that we are mates across the ditch etc is just bullshit, we are 2 separate countries with our own laws so why pander to them? Just my point of view.
"(3) EXCEPT, when they have not lived in NZ for 15 years and are being deported from Aussie under S501"
But I agree with you oldfellah, it is dumb deporting someone who has lived there all their lives, has partner and kid in Aussie, and no ties to NZ
RE: The 501s - Lilith7 - 11-06-2022
The old 'mates across the ditch' thing aka as the Anzac spirit has been virtually pissed all over by the Australian govt. There's really no justification for sending back people who've lived there since they were a few months old & who have no ties & no family support of any kind here.
What they're doing is exporting their Australian-made problems back here - & they're well aware of the problems they're causing for us by doing so. They just don't care about that.
There's a class action lawsuit in the works against the Australian govt. I hope its successful.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2022/01/kiwi-gathering-stories-of-dozens-of-501-deportees-this-month-before-suing-australian-government.html
"A Christchurch woman is spending the next month travelling New Zealand to meet with 501 deportees from Australia.
The hikoi is another step in Filipa Payne's plan to take a class action lawsuit against the Australian government for the treatment of deportees and its hard-line immigration policy.
Payne took a banner around Australia in 2015. Now she's travelling around New Zealand with it.
"To stop and meet with people that have been removed from Australia through deportation," the Route 501 Advocate founder said."
Some have appealed but they're shunted off to Christmas island to await a decision which can take some time. One woman was successful
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/09/new-zealand-born-woman-abused-in-australian-state-care-wins-appeal-against-501-deportation
https://www.1news.co.nz/2022/01/25/number-of-successful-appeals-against-501-deportation-revealed/
RE: The 501s - Zurdo - 12-06-2022
The 501's have brought in a whole new level of organised crime...they make our mobsters look amateur. But I'm sure there have been many 501's who have managed to fit into our way of life and are not being a problem at all. But those 501's, they are all bad, send them back !
RE: The 501s - nzoomed - 14-06-2022
The issue is we cant do anything to stop them coming, where do we put them if Aussie dumps them all here?
I get the whole bill of rights thing, but the only answer is to force Aussie to halt these deportations.
We are only accepting them as a technicality. Perhaps the bill of rights needs to be adjusted along with our residency laws?
These people shouldn't even retain NZ residency if they don't come back to live in NZ before a certain age or stay here for a specified period of time.
Hopefully Aussies new PM will change things, but if not, its time for Jacinda to reciprocate and send our trash back to Aussie as they refer it as.
RE: The 501s - nzoomed - 14-06-2022
(11-06-2022, 10:03 AM)king1 Wrote: to some extent the Aussies are exploiting the bill of rights act, under international law I believe you cannot deport anyone if they have nowhere to go...  We would need an exception to that law - maybeYup, agreed, we need to change our legislation fast, but it probably wouldnt apply to anyone currently living there, probably only future citizens yet to be born.
"(3) EXCEPT, when they have not lived in NZ for 15 years and are being deported from Aussie under S501"
But I agree with you oldfellah, it is dumb deporting someone who has lived there all their lives, has partner and kid in Aussie, and no ties to NZ
RE: The 501s - Lilith7 - 14-06-2022
(14-06-2022, 11:15 AM)nzoomed Wrote: The issue is we cant do anything to stop them coming, where do we put them if Aussie dumps them all here?That may be the way to do it, but I can't really see any Kiwi govt doing that. They should, imo but it would perhaps cause some problems for whichever govt did it.
I get the whole bill of rights thing, but the only answer is to force Aussie to halt these deportations.
We are only accepting them as a technicality. Perhaps the bill of rights needs to be adjusted along with our residency laws?
These people shouldn't even retain NZ residency if they don't come back to live in NZ before a certain age or stay here for a specified period of time.
Hopefully Aussies new PM will change things, but if not, its time for Jacinda to reciprocate and send our trash back to Aussie as they refer it as.
Both with Oz & with those here who can't see past the 'get tough' stance for crime of every kind; in fact the get tough brigade may have a problem with it because while they support in theory the GT stance of Oz, the reality when those people are dumped here is another kettle of fish entirely - which they're probably none too keen on.
I doubt any of us are.
RE: The 501s - Oldfellah - 14-06-2022
(14-06-2022, 11:15 AM)nzoomed Wrote: The issue is we cant do anything to stop them coming, where do we put them if Aussie dumps them all here?
I get the whole bill of rights thing, but the only answer is to force Aussie to halt these deportations.
We are only accepting them as a technicality. Perhaps the bill of rights needs to be adjusted along with our residency laws?
These people shouldn't even retain NZ residency if they don't come back to live in NZ before a certain age or stay here for a specified period of time.
Hopefully Aussies new PM will change things, but if not, its time for Jacinda to reciprocate and send our trash back to Aussie as they refer it as.
I agree, lets change things and dump their trash back where it belongs, but we wont hold our breaths will we?
RE: The 501s - Lilith7 - 14-06-2022
I met a young man who I suspect is one of the 501's outside the library one day. He struck up a conversation about my bike which has pannier bags & basket, remarking on how useful it must be.
He had an Australian accent & said he'd stayed at a friend's house the previous night but his friend had tried to kill him. I think I realised then that he was one or two sandwiches short, & went on to tell me that he was only in NZ until his Mum sent his birth certificate, & then it would all be alright & he could go home to Oz.
So here was a young bloke clearly not the full quid, who'd been dumped in NZ with little to zero chance of ever getting back home again to his family.
I'd really like to think that somehow, his situation had been sorted out & he was back home, but given the Australian govt's disgraceful & inhumane attitude that seems unlikely, poor little bugger.