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+--- Thread: a poignant open (/showthread.php?tid=1377)
a poignant open - Magoo - 28-05-2022
from Ari Meelber regarding the latest in what he describes as a 'ritual' cycle of angst and grief and then doing fuck all 
about shootings in usa.
no need to watch its entirety, the opening monologue runs about 3 minutes.
he uses words like 'negligent', and 'complicit' in their approach to actually dealing with the issue.
he berates americas normalisation and ongoing acceptance of this phenomenon... hmmm phenomenon might be the wrong word but it seems unique to american society, although ive made reference in another thread to our own elephant in the room that is infanticide and our ritual of blame, hand wringing and then doing fuck all (ongoing acceptance,)) is just marking time between deaths.
at which point do we too become complicit by neglect to act as well?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cp-CMwXQQ8s
RE: a poignant open - Oh_hunnihunni - 28-05-2022
Explain this complicit by neglect business. What do you expect the individual citizen to do exactly?
RE: a poignant open - SueDonim - 28-05-2022
(28-05-2022, 06:54 AM)Magoo Wrote: from Ari Meelber regarding the latest in what he describes as a 'ritual' cycle of angst and grief and then doing fuck all 
about shootings in usa.
no need to watch its entirety, the opening monologue runs about 3 minutes.
he uses words like 'negligent', and 'complicit' in their approach to actually dealing with the issue.
he berates americas normalisation and ongoing acceptance of this phenomenon... hmmm phenomenon might be the wrong word but it seems unique to american society, although ive made reference in another thread to our own elephant in the room that is infanticide and our ritual of blame, hand wringing and then doing fuck all (ongoing acceptance,)) is just marking time between deaths.
at which point do we too become complicit by neglect to act as well?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cp-CMwXQQ8s
Good food for thought.
The first mistake that people make is referring to "America" as a whole. Every state has its own culture, personality and laws. A number of years ago I did an in depth survey into the relationship between gun laws and crime. And there is none. It's easy for people to point at a liberal (in a legal sense) state and show their bad record, whilst ignoring other states that have much tighter laws (including far tighter than ours) and have just as much of a problem. The converse was also true. Some of the most liberal states were the safest. I don't have time to do the exercise now but after a quick look at some data I don't see any immediate evidence that it has changed.
The bottom line is that the whole crime problem is a social one, and making more laws simply doesn't fix anything. Countries that we align with culturally all have enough laws. Some of the problem is the lack of, or inconsistent, application of the law. Sometimes it's just simply too hard. But mostly the problem is a misplaced focus on more control.
The politicians shown as saying the same words over and over are just doing their job as the figurehead who has to say something caring at a time of tragedy. It's the same here. And won't be fixed by laws that hit the good people, only policy and guidance that deal with a change in a malfunctioning social structure.
RE: a poignant open - Oh_hunnihunni - 28-05-2022
I cannot help but think the NRA was parasitised by the armaments industry and zombified from an organisation of gun collectors into a political lobby group. Was a time when it supported gun control, and then something happened inside it...
RE: a poignant open - Magoo - 28-05-2022
(28-05-2022, 10:51 AM)Oh_hunnihunni Wrote: Explain this complicit by neglect business. What do you expect the individual citizen to do exactly?we neglect to uphold the laws and systems we put in place to address this.
we repeatedly fail to take any action or attempt at solution. this is our duty to do. whose else?
we are neglecting our duty as decent, societal human beings by ignoring it. this makes us enablers by proxy and complicit in the ongong deaths.
what can we do exactly? 
because the victims are voiceless, no one answers to the inaction. theres a start. demand action, make noise, be active, ...try... annoy your mp, i pester the shit out of the miserable prick and i dont even fuckin vote
how many times have investigations folded when wagons were circled and voices quieted?
its unacceptable to me. we should be apoplectic with outrage. we are not. we stoically plod the same path expecting different outcomes without catalytic change. aka stupidity but i dont like being too hard on ourselves, winning hearts and minds etc
its making the noise, chewing the bone, pushing for change. it can be done from a keyboard as much or more than street level. be pissed off, be unreasonable, be unwavering. attack those institutions letting us down and demand tangible action.  shame those who would sweep it under the rug and make feeble adages and meek scripted responses to what is worse here than anywhere else in the civilised world. 
shame on us.
(28-05-2022, 11:10 AM)SueDonim Wrote:having travelled extensively across the usa it never ceases to amaze me that they are one country.(28-05-2022, 06:54 AM)Magoo Wrote: from Ari Meelber regarding the latest in what he describes as a 'ritual' cycle of angst and grief and then doing fuck all 
about shootings in usa.
no need to watch its entirety, the opening monologue runs about 3 minutes.
he uses words like 'negligent', and 'complicit' in their approach to actually dealing with the issue.
he berates americas normalisation and ongoing acceptance of this phenomenon... hmmm phenomenon might be the wrong word but it seems unique to american society, although ive made reference in another thread to our own elephant in the room that is infanticide and our ritual of blame, hand wringing and then doing fuck all (ongoing acceptance,)) is just marking time between deaths.
at which point do we too become complicit by neglect to act as well?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cp-CMwXQQ8s
Good food for thought.
The first mistake that people make is referring to "America" as a whole. Every state has its own culture, personality and laws. A number of years ago I did an in depth survey into the relationship between gun laws and crime. And there is none. It's easy for people to point at a liberal (in a legal sense) state and show their bad record, whilst ignoring other states that have much tighter laws (including far tighter than ours) and have just as much of a problem. The converse was also true. Some of the most liberal states were the safest. I don't have time to do the exercise now but after a quick look at some data I don't see any immediate evidence that it has changed.
The bottom line is that the whole crime problem is a social one, and making more laws simply doesn't fix anything. Countries that we align with culturally all have enough laws. Some of the problem is the lack of, or inconsistent, application of the law. Sometimes it's just simply too hard. But mostly the problem is a misplaced focus on more control.
The politicians shown as saying the same words over and over are just doing their job as the figurehead who has to say something caring at a time of tragedy. It's the same here. And won't be fixed by laws that hit the good people, only policy and guidance that deal with a change in a malfunctioning social structure.
there are paradigm shifts in culture and identity.
california would not be upset if florida or texas wished to secede from the union, and vice versa i assume.
there is a thread that ties them together, but ive failed to see it.
they say diversity is strength, they might be right.
(28-05-2022, 10:51 AM)Oh_hunnihunni Wrote: Explain this complicit by neglect business. What do you expect the individual citizen to do exactly?this is the same question we lambast the citizenry of america for over gun control.
RE: a poignant open - SueDonim - 28-05-2022
(28-05-2022, 11:16 AM)Oh_hunnihunni Wrote: I cannot help but think the NRA was parasitised by the armaments industry and zombified from an organisation of gun collectors into a political lobby group. Was a time when it supported gun control, and then something happened inside it...
I think the power of the NRA is its sheer size. Of course there will be overlap with industry but it's an industry that's important to all of the members. They are proponents of control as it relates to safety instead of the ignorant who think safety means take all the guns away. The bottom line is that the NRA members know that changes in law cost everyone and achieve nothing. Something our government hasn't learned yet.
RE: a poignant open - Magoo - 28-05-2022
(28-05-2022, 01:34 PM)SueDonim Wrote:yes, gun control and gun prohibition are different beasties.(28-05-2022, 11:16 AM)Oh_hunnihunni Wrote: I cannot help but think the NRA was parasitised by the armaments industry and zombified from an organisation of gun collectors into a political lobby group. Was a time when it supported gun control, and then something happened inside it...
I think the power of the NRA is its sheer size. Of course there will be overlap with industry but it's an industry that's important to all of the members. They are proponents of control as it relates to safety instead of the ignorant who think safety means take all the guns away. The bottom line is that the NRA members know that changes in law cost everyone and achieve nothing. Something our government hasn't learned yet.
the nra espouses neither
RE: a poignant open - Magoo - 28-05-2022
me and joey are both against it.
kick it deedee
RE: a poignant open - Lilith7 - 28-05-2022
Different countries handle things in different ways. Gun related killings in the USA in 2020 were at 79%, Canada at 37%, UK at 4% & Oz at 13%.
Unless - heaven forfend - a whacko shooter targets a school attended by the children of those supporting their present gun laws, its difficult to see that anything will change in America.
Perhaps they see the right to own a gun as a part of their tradition, & somehow equate that with freedom.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41488081
"How do US gun killings compare with other countries?
In 2020, 43% of the deaths - amounting to 19,384 people - were homicides, according to data from the CDC. The figure represents a 34% increase from 2019, and a 75% increase over the course of the previous decade.
Nearly 53 people are killed each day by a firearm in the US, according to the data.
The data also shows that the vast majority of murders, 79%, were carried out with guns.
That's a significantly larger proportion of homicides than is the case in Canada, Australia, England and Wales, and many other countries."
And after a mass shooting, Canada changed its gun laws
https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/05/22/how-canada-got-tough-on-guns-trudeau-nra-nova-scotia-assault-weapons-ban-ar15/
"MONTREALÔÇöLess than two weeks after a gunman went on a rampage in CanadaÔÇÖs eastern province of Nova Scotia, killing 22 people in the deadliest mass shooting in the countryÔÇÖs modern history, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau made a long-awaited announcement: His government would ban ÔÇ£assault-styleÔÇØ firearms in CanadaÔÇöa demand gun control advocates had spent decades pushing for.
On May 1, Trudeau enacted new regulations to ban the use, sale, and import of more than 1,500 models of firearms and their components. ÔÇ£Canadians deserve more than thoughts and prayers,ÔÇØ Trudeau said, echoing the fatalistic refrain of many U.S. politicians after every mass shooting.
ÔÇ£These weapons were designed for one purpose and one purpose only: to kill the largest number of people in the shortest amount of time. There is no use and no place for such weapons in Canada.ÔÇØ
RE: a poignant open - Magoo - 28-05-2022
and so it goes...til next time
rinse repeat