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Possible new tax law - Lilith7 - 26-04-2022

Its very seldom that I agree with a politician, but this may be what's needed or a part of it - assuming changes are eventually made. This won't go down well among many Nat voters.



https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/128452925/revenue-minister-david-parker-lashes-very-wealthy-for-being-undertaxed-calls-for-new-tax-principles

"Revenue Minister David Parker will introduce a bill which would set out principles of fairness in the tax system.
Speaking at the Victoria University in Wellington, Parker said authorities had ÔÇ£virtually no idea what rate of tax is paid by the very wealthyÔÇØ.
ÔÇ£We do know the rate paid by wage and salary earners and by small business owners.ÔÇØ


The new bill, to be called the Tax Principles Act, was part of ParkerÔÇÖs work over the┬ápast few years┬álooking into the wealth levels of the richest New Zealanders and how much tax they pay.

ÔÇ£What it will do is allow any future tax policy development to be based on solid evidence.ÔÇØ

He also described GST, a 15% tax added when people buy goods and services, as a regressive tax because it takes a larger percentage of income from low-income earners than from high-income earners.

ÔÇ£National is proposing a return to what even the OECD has described is New Zealand tenants subsidising taxes for their landlords,ÔÇØ he said."

RE: Possible new tax law - Wainuiguy - 26-04-2022

And it will be a total balls up if this government is to go by.


Caution: Potentially Misleading or Disinformation
Show

Is it fair that 5% of taxpayers pay 25% of all the tax?
Is it fair that 50% of taxpayers pay no tax whatsoever?

Admin Notes: This claim appears inconsistent with published statements from Treasury. Please provide links or references to add context.
https://www.treasury.govt.nz/information-and-services/financial-management-and-advice/revenue-expenditure/revenue-effects-tax-changes/who-pays-income-tax


This post has been flagged by TMMB Moderators.  Please review the rules HERE.  Unauthorised removal is against the rules.



As for the comments re GST.It is the fairest tax there is. Everyone pays it, those more wealthy pay more of it, even those taking in black money funds under the table pay it. It doesn't get much fairer than that.

As for subsidizing landlords the government presently does that now massively.

RE: Possible new tax law - king1 - 26-04-2022

(26-04-2022, 04:06 PM)Wainuiguy Wrote:
Caution: Potentially Misleading or Disinformation
Show

Is it fair that 5% of taxpayers pay 25% of all the tax?
Is it fair that 50% of taxpayers pay no tax whatsoever?

Admin Notes: This claim appears wildly inconsistent with published statements from Treasury. Please provide links or references to add context.
https://www.treasury.govt.nz/information-and-services/financial-management-and-advice/revenue-expenditure/revenue-effects-tax-changes/who-pays-income-tax


This post has been flagged by TMMB Moderators.  Please review the rules HERE.  Unauthorised removal is against the rules.
can you provide a link to this information? Nowhere in the article does it say anything about this... Curious to know where the figures came from

RE: Possible new tax law - Wainuiguy - 26-04-2022

(26-04-2022, 04:28 PM)king1 Wrote:
(26-04-2022, 04:06 PM)Wainuiguy Wrote:
Caution: Potentially Misleading or Disinformation
Show

Is it fair that 5% of taxpayers pay 25% of all the tax?
Is it fair that 50% of taxpayers pay no tax whatsoever?

Admin Notes: This claim appears wildly inconsistent with published statements from Treasury. Please provide links or references to add context.
https://www.treasury.govt.nz/information-and-services/financial-management-and-advice/revenue-expenditure/revenue-effects-tax-changes/who-pays-income-tax


This post has been flagged by TMMB Moderators.  Please review the rules HERE.  Unauthorised removal is against the rules.
can you provide a link to this information? Nowhere in the article does it say anything about this... Curious to know where the figures came from
Well it course it doesnt.  But feel free to do your own research.

RE: Possible new tax law - king1 - 26-04-2022

(26-04-2022, 05:57 PM)Wainuiguy Wrote:
(26-04-2022, 04:28 PM)king1 Wrote: can you provide a link to this information? Nowhere in the article does it say anything about this... Curious to know where the figures came from
Well it course it doesnt.  But feel free to do your own research.
so more made up numbers?   let's call it misinformation shall we?

RE: Possible new tax law - harm_less - 26-04-2022

(26-04-2022, 06:17 PM)king1 Wrote:
(26-04-2022, 05:57 PM)Wainuiguy Wrote: Well it course it doesnt.  But feel free to do your own research.
so more made up numbers?   let's call it misinformation shall we?
Brings to mind what my dear old Dad used to refer to as a 'bullshit artist'.

RE: Possible new tax law - Praktica - 26-04-2022

Hmm - do your own research, eh? Who does that sound like?

RE: Possible new tax law - king1 - 26-04-2022

(26-04-2022, 06:28 PM)Praktica Wrote: Hmm - do your own research, eh? Who does that sound like?
I know...

RE: Possible new tax law - Wainuiguy - 26-04-2022

(26-04-2022, 06:17 PM)king1 Wrote:
(26-04-2022, 05:57 PM)Wainuiguy Wrote: Well it course it doesnt.  But feel free to do your own research.
so more made up numbers?   let's call it misinformation shall we?
Look it up.  Call it made up all you like.  Prove me wrong.

RE: Possible new tax law - king1 - 26-04-2022

(26-04-2022, 06:53 PM)Wainuiguy Wrote:
(26-04-2022, 06:17 PM)king1 Wrote: so more made up numbers?   let's call it misinformation shall we?
Look it up.  Call it made up all you like.  Prove me wrong.
maybe no one explained this to you when you were five, so I will endeavour to do so here. 

If you are going to make assertions or claims about anything, the burden of proof is on the one making the claims to provide proof of said claim, especially when said claims are slightly suss or outright BS...

RE: Possible new tax law - harm_less - 26-04-2022

(26-04-2022, 06:53 PM)Wainuiguy Wrote:
(26-04-2022, 06:17 PM)king1 Wrote: so more made up numbers?   let's call it misinformation shall we?
Look it up.  Call it made up all you like.  Prove me wrong.
You've got it arse about sunshine. You claimed it, it's up to you to prove it's not BS.

RE: Possible new tax law - Wainuiguy - 26-04-2022

(26-04-2022, 07:09 PM)harm_less Wrote:
(26-04-2022, 06:53 PM)Wainuiguy Wrote: Look it up.  Call it made up all you like.  Prove me wrong.
You've got it arse about sunshine. You claimed it, it's up to you to prove it's not BS.
So you don't want to check do you?  Wonder why?

RE: Possible new tax law - harm_less - 26-04-2022

(26-04-2022, 07:11 PM)Wainuiguy Wrote:
(26-04-2022, 07:09 PM)harm_less Wrote: You've got it arse about sunshine. You claimed it, it's up to you to prove it's not BS.
So you don't want to check do you?  Wonder why?
Because I've got better things to fill my time than research your BS. When I post it usually includes a link to back my claims. Just because you're too fucken lazy to do the same doesn't entitle you to enlist others to fact check you.

RE: Possible new tax law - Lilith7 - 26-04-2022

Hardly a surprising reaction, though. There are some for whom anything done or even proposed, by this govt will always be wrong.

I think it might be interesting if we had a fairer tax system, & I wonder how many of those dead set against it would up sticks & bugger off to another country if that happened. Quite OK for others to pay their fair share(or preferably more) but they're none too keen on doing so themselves.

The older I get, the more I think we need to emulate as far as possible, those Scandinavian countries which have high taxes to cover education, health welfare, housing etc. etc. & whose people feature inevitably at the top of those 'happiest people' surveys.

RE: Possible new tax law - Wainuiguy - 26-04-2022

(26-04-2022, 07:15 PM)harm_less Wrote:
(26-04-2022, 07:11 PM)Wainuiguy Wrote: So you don't want to check do you?  Wonder why?
Because I've got better things to fill my time than research your BS. When I post it usually includes a link to back my claims. Just because you're too fucken lazy to do the same doesn't entitle you to enlist others to fact check you.
Busy lol.  

Google it - should take you all of 30 seconds.
(26-04-2022, 07:17 PM)Lilith7 Wrote: Hardly a surprising reaction, though. There are some for whom anything done or even proposed, by this govt will always be wrong.

I think it might be interesting if we had a fairer tax system, & I wonder how many of those dead set against it would up sticks & bugger off to another country if that happened. Quite OK for others to pay their fair share(or preferably more) but they're none too keen on doing so themselves.

The older I get, the more I think we need to emulate as far as possible, those Scandinavian countries which have high taxes to cover education, health welfare, housing etc. etc. & whose people feature inevitably at the top of those 'happiest people' surveys.
Don't compare us to Sweden or Norway.  Both have significant natural resources they don't have issues using.

RE: Possible new tax law - harm_less - 26-04-2022

(26-04-2022, 07:17 PM)Wainuiguy Wrote:
(26-04-2022, 07:15 PM)harm_less Wrote: Because I've got better things to fill my time than research your BS. When I post it usually includes a link to back my claims. Just because you're too fucken lazy to do the same doesn't entitle you to enlist others to fact check you.
Busy lol.  

Google it - should take you all of 30 seconds.
F*ck off! You have now exhausted my patience for BS artists for today.

RE: Possible new tax law - king1 - 26-04-2022

(26-04-2022, 07:17 PM)Wainuiguy Wrote:
(26-04-2022, 07:15 PM)harm_less Wrote: Because I've got better things to fill my time than research your BS. When I post it usually includes a link to back my claims. Just because you're too fucken lazy to do the same doesn't entitle you to enlist others to fact check you.
Busy lol.  

Google it - should take you all of 30 seconds.
So it's a big ass internet out there...

But being curious, I did google and the first thing I found (admittedly only took 15 seconds) was the Treasury website which seem to disprove what you are claiming... 

Hence, flagged for misinformation.  

So, your evidence to backup your claim is where ???

RE: Possible new tax law - Wainuiguy - 26-04-2022

(26-04-2022, 07:27 PM)king1 Wrote:
(26-04-2022, 07:17 PM)Wainuiguy Wrote: Busy lol.  

Google it - should take you all of 30 seconds.
So it's a big ass internet out there...

But being curious, I did google and the first thing I found (admittedly only took 15 seconds) was the Treasury website which seem to disprove what you are claiming... 

Hence, flagged for misinformation.  

So, your evidence to backup your claim is where ???
Well let's start here - from 2013 but changes under this government would make this worse not better.

https://www.wgtn.ac.nz/news/2013/income-taxpayers#:~:text=For%20those%20over%20%2470%2C000%20%E2%80%93%20the,average%20than%20their%20income%20share.

Then seeing as you mention treasury - and fuck me I was wrong.  It is 30%

https://www.treasury.govt.nz/information-and-services/financial-management-and-advice/revenue-expenditure/revenue-effects-tax-changes/who-pays-income-tax

RE: Possible new tax law - king1 - 26-04-2022

(26-04-2022, 07:37 PM)Wainuiguy Wrote:
(26-04-2022, 07:27 PM)king1 Wrote: So it's a big ass internet out there...

But being curious, I did google and the first thing I found (admittedly only took 15 seconds) was the Treasury website which seem to disprove what you are claiming... 

Hence, flagged for misinformation.  

So, your evidence to backup your claim is where ???
Well let's start here - from 2013 but changes under this government would make this worse not better.

https://www.wgtn.ac.nz/news/2013/income-taxpayers#:~:text=For%20those%20over%20%2470%2C000%20%E2%80%93%20the,average%20than%20their%20income%20share.

Then seeing as you mention treasury - and fuck me I was wrong.  It is 30%

https://www.treasury.govt.nz/information-and-services/financial-management-and-advice/revenue-expenditure/revenue-effects-tax-changes/who-pays-income-tax
ok not sure how relevant a 2013 article is going to be these days, but I see that it is trying to factor in the effects of FTC, AS, GST as well.  The Treasury values are only reflecting income tax.  

But i'm happy to make the following changes and remove the CM 

Is it fair that 5% of taxpayers pay 25% of all the tax?  ==>> Is it fair that 5% of taxpayers pay 30% of all income tax?

Is it fair that 50% of taxpayers pay no tax whatsoever?  ==>> Is it fair that 6% of taxpayers pay no income tax whatsoever?  

With the link to 
https://www.treasury.govt.nz/information-and-services/financial-management-and-advice/revenue-expenditure/revenue-effects-tax-changes/who-pays-income-tax

RE: Possible new tax law - Wainuiguy - 26-04-2022

(26-04-2022, 08:03 PM)king1 Wrote:
(26-04-2022, 07:37 PM)Wainuiguy Wrote: Well let's start here - from 2013 but changes under this government would make this worse not better.

https://www.wgtn.ac.nz/news/2013/income-taxpayers#:~:text=For%20those%20over%20%2470%2C000%20%E2%80%93%20the,average%20than%20their%20income%20share.

Then seeing as you mention treasury - and fuck me I was wrong.  It is 30%

https://www.treasury.govt.nz/information-and-services/financial-management-and-advice/revenue-expenditure/revenue-effects-tax-changes/who-pays-income-tax
ok not sure how relevant a 2013 article is going to be these days, but I see that it is trying to factor in the effects of FTC, AS, GST as well.  The Treasury values are only reflecting income tax.  

But i'm happy to make the following changes and remove the CM 

Is it fair that 5% of taxpayers pay 25% of all the tax?  ==>> Is it fair that 5% of taxpayers pay 30% of all income tax?

Is it fair that 50% of taxpayers pay no tax whatsoever?  ==>> Is it fair that 6% of taxpayers pay no income tax whatsoever?  

With the link to 
https://www.treasury.govt.nz/information-and-services/financial-management-and-advice/revenue-expenditure/revenue-effects-tax-changes/who-pays-income-tax
The 50% number paying no tax is about those that pay tax but then have it given back as various tax credits and benefits.