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Advantage to the debtors. - The BDI - 21-04-2022
Hi, newbie here. 
Yesterday I had an amusing  situation arise... I had applied for an account with a local timber merchant, part of a national chain some days ago. I did that because of the huge...and I mean huge discounts available to credit account customers that do no apply to cash customers (WTF ???). I'm talking here of decking, premium av at that store for $2.25 plm , as against B*****s for $4.50 ish, and coated screws at $12/200 as against M**** for $28
 Hearing nothing I called in and spoke to the manager......
Apparently I have no credit references and no credit rating.. 
Correct I told him.. that's because I am not a debtor.    I explained that for the last two houses we built, I paid cash, and that the only reason I required an account was for the huge discounts available.
Got the account but only at a greatly reduced credit limit!  
So now its an advantage to be a debtor apparently .. cash customers need not apply.
Makes me wonder where the economy is heading  
The B D I
RE: Advantage to the debtors. - Oh_hunnihunni - 21-04-2022
Welcome to the quietest smallest most polite forum on the interweb. Except for magoo that is. We keep him around because he makes us laugh.
You answer your own question. Economy. It is like most things in our community, all about money. If you are not borrowing you have retaken your power back from those who benefit from debt. Regrettably, your withdrawal from their stores of the stuff is a mere blip if the stats are to be believed, but even for a blip, you will be punished.
Interesting article here...
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/128396590/world-watching-nz-housing-market-as-auckland-labelled-canary-in-coal-mine
RE: Advantage to the debtors. - king1 - 21-04-2022
gawd, clearly they didn't look at your DOB - unless you're a teenager having no credit rating has got to be a good thing...
Does beg the question whether banks should not be required to contribute positive statistics, regarding savings history, balances etc to credit bureaus to allow for this scenario. Doesn't need to include dollar values, maybe just another rating that adds to or offsets the 'credit rating'
RE: Advantage to the debtors. - Oh_hunnihunni - 21-04-2022
The banks contribute data to credit ratings companies. And that lot aren't the most efficient data managers...
But, hey, it pays not to fight city hall. It is a battle that is hard to win.
6.9% inflation they tell us, more debt coming right up.
RE: Advantage to the debtors. - SueDonim - 21-04-2022
You have two issues.
The credit issue has always been the case - if you have never had credit, you have no credit history so will have trouble getting credit. In their eyes, just because you have always paid cash doesn't mean you will pay monthly accounts on time. Or, your circumstances might have changed and the reason you want credit now is because you have run out of money, and so on. The timber merchant is presumably a trade supplier, and they get stung a lot from people who pay late or simply don't pay. Look at it from their perspective. Someone they don't know wants to take goods now and pay for them in 6 weeks time and has no documentation to show that they can or will pay when it's due. Would you lend thousands of dollars to a stranger off the street?
The other side of it is that I would expect that the timber merchant is a trade supplier. Supplying to tradies who buy at a discount and onsell the goods to their customers when they use them in a job. Those discounts are not available to Joe Public. And even within the trade, the discounts can vary according to goods. Eg my DH has a number of trade accounts (because he is a tradie). Some of them give a discount on the things the buys for his normal work - eg timber, Gib, paint, screws etc - but not if he buys garden products from the same supplier. They consider that to be domestic, even if it's eg for a bit of final landscaping for his customer. That's outside his scope as a builder so no discount applies.
RE: Advantage to the debtors. - king1 - 21-04-2022
what they really need is cash sale accounts for these folks that gives the good discount but requires payment at the time
(Not just a stupid loyalty card that might get you a free coffee once a week or a pittance off ). Would seem to be a win win for everyone... Do they exist?
RE: Advantage to the debtors. - SueDonim - 21-04-2022
(21-04-2022, 01:35 PM)king1 Wrote: what they really need is cash sale accounts for these folks that gives the good discount but requires payment at the time
(Not just a stupid loyalty card that might get you a free coffee once a week or a pittance off ).  Would seem to be a win win for everyone...  Do they exist?
That could be useful as a larger version of "loyalty" cards to prove that you are a regular customer, but doesn't really help to secure credit, other than giving someone a chance to build a relationship with a business. To change from cash to credit would still be a risk that requires some kind of credit history. When I was hit with this in 1980 I was told to go and get a credit card, which I did and therefore didn't need the hp I was asking for.
For OP's example no amount of loyalty cards will help to identify the person as a legitimate trade customer. That part is not about cash versus credit, but about whether you are bona fide when you don't have references from others in the trade.
RE: Advantage to the debtors. - The BDI - 21-04-2022
(21-04-2022, 01:35 PM)king1 Wrote: what they really need is cash sale accounts for these folks that gives the good discount but requires payment at the timeQuite.
(Not just a stupid loyalty card that might get you a free coffee once a week or a pittance off ).  Would seem to be a win win for everyone...  Do they exist?
(21-04-2022, 02:10 PM)SueDonim Wrote:I was not wanting credit.... they were happy to give me a discount so long as I had an account.,.. and fyi last time I dealt with a branch of that firm.. some years ago now in  one of many loads of timber I had 17 Tonne of palings delivered to me...(21-04-2022, 01:35 PM)king1 Wrote: what they really need is cash sale accounts for these folks that gives the good discount but requires payment at the time
(Not just a stupid loyalty card that might get you a free coffee once a week or a pittance off ).  Would seem to be a win win for everyone...  Do they exist?
That could be useful as a larger version of "loyalty" cards to prove that you are a regular customer, but doesn't really help to secure credit, other than giving someone a chance to build a relationship with a business. To change from cash to credit would still be a risk that requires some kind of credit history. When I was hit with this in 1980 I was told to go and get a credit card, which I did and therefore didn't need the hp I was asking for.
For OP's example no amount of loyalty cards will help to identify the person as a legitimate trade customer. That part is not about cash versus credit, but about whether you are bona fide when you don't have references from others in the trade.
RE: Advantage to the debtors. - SueDonim - 21-04-2022
(21-04-2022, 04:30 PM)The BDI Wrote:(21-04-2022, 01:35 PM)king1 Wrote: what they really need is cash sale accounts for these folks that gives the good discount but requires payment at the timeQuite.
(Not just a stupid loyalty card that might get you a free coffee once a week or a pittance off ).  Would seem to be a win win for everyone...  Do they exist?
(21-04-2022, 02:10 PM)SueDonim Wrote: That could be useful as a larger version of "loyalty" cards to prove that you are a regular customer, but doesn't really help to secure credit, other than giving someone a chance to build a relationship with a business. To change from cash to credit would still be a risk that requires some kind of credit history. When I was hit with this in 1980 I was told to go and get a credit card, which I did and therefore didn't need the hp I was asking for.I was not wanting credit.... they were happy to give me a discount so long as I had an account.,.. and fyi last time I dealt with a branch of that firm.. some years ago now in  one of many loads of timber I had 17 Tonne of palings delivered to me...
For OP's example no amount of loyalty cards will help to identify the person as a legitimate trade customer. That part is not about cash versus credit, but about whether you are bona fide when you don't have references from others in the trade.
King1's suggestion is what you are wanting but I don't know of any system of "account" that isn't a credit account. Ultimately it still comes back to whether you qualify for trade supply or not. If it's just for your own build, they're unlikely to come to the party if you don't have "history".  The circle goes around.
RE: Advantage to the debtors. - harm_less - 21-04-2022
We're similar to the OP in that we don't run any debt (including being mortgage free), apart from credit cards which are 'zeroed' every month. Our business customers are almost entirely cash; as is usual for an online business nothing is dispatched until payment is received and our suppliers operate on the same basis. The exceptions are our courier for the business and our insurance company personally.
The odd time we have been in a situation where credit details were required we either opted out or cobbled together a credit 'history' by combining personal and business accounts that we have dealt with over the years.
There are still suppliers that will discount for cash. It's just a matter of pressuring them to do so.
RE: Advantage to the debtors. - Oh_hunnihunni - 21-04-2022
(21-04-2022, 04:30 PM)The BDI Wrote:That is one Very Long Picket Fence. Kudos...(21-04-2022, 01:35 PM)king1 Wrote: what they really need is cash sale accounts for these folks that gives the good discount but requires payment at the timeQuite.
(Not just a stupid loyalty card that might get you a free coffee once a week or a pittance off ).  Would seem to be a win win for everyone...  Do they exist?
(21-04-2022, 02:10 PM)SueDonim Wrote: That could be useful as a larger version of "loyalty" cards to prove that you are a regular customer, but doesn't really help to secure credit, other than giving someone a chance to build a relationship with a business. To change from cash to credit would still be a risk that requires some kind of credit history. When I was hit with this in 1980 I was told to go and get a credit card, which I did and therefore didn't need the hp I was asking for.I was not wanting credit.... they were happy to give me a discount so long as I had an account.,.. and fyi last time I dealt with a branch of that firm.. some years ago now in  one of many loads of timber I had 17 Tonne of palings delivered to me...
For OP's example no amount of loyalty cards will help to identify the person as a legitimate trade customer. That part is not about cash versus credit, but about whether you are bona fide when you don't have references from others in the trade.
RE: Advantage to the debtors. - Magoo - 22-04-2022
welcome aboard bdi. dont listen to the others especially that misanthrope hunni, bolshy left wing character assassin.
shes never gotten over that house we dropped on her sister. dont leave any valuables around when shes here.
must be plenty of coin around, usually places fall over themselves to get account customers.
account customers come back, loyalty by lasso. they are inclined to over-spend and often others are using the account and not as frugal as you might be.
when i opened my mitre 10 account i used my credit card on file. they dont use it, (it incurs charges for them too), they just have it. i dont use it as an account either. just to get trade deals and flybuy redemptions.
RE: Advantage to the debtors. - Oh_hunnihunni - 22-04-2022
Misanthrope? Bolshy? Character assassin? Moi?
Oh I do like you magoo...
RE: Advantage to the debtors. - Olive - 22-04-2022
(22-04-2022, 10:35 AM)Oh_hunnihunni Wrote: Misanthrope? Bolshy? Character assassin? Moi?He's a silver-tongued devil all right.
Oh I do like you magoo...
RE: Advantage to the debtors. - Magoo - 22-04-2022
RE: Advantage to the debtors. - Oh_hunnihunni - 22-04-2022
Well, the truth is out. Hunni will do just about anything for a really nice pair of shoes...
RE: Advantage to the debtors. - gr8dadof2 - 23-04-2022
(21-04-2022, 10:38 AM)The BDI Wrote: Hi, newbie here. Totally backward if you ask me, but then so are most things in this world today. Once upon a time you were rewarded with a discount for cash purchases. Now it appears the tables have turned and you are now penalised for paying cash.
Yesterday I had an amusing  situation arise... I had applied for an account with a local timber merchant, part of a national chain some days ago. I did that because of the huge...and I mean huge discounts available to credit account customers that do no apply to cash customers (WTF ???). I'm talking here of decking, premium av at that store for $2.25 plm , as against B*****s for $4.50 ish, and coated screws at $12/200 as against M**** for $28
 Hearing nothing I called in and spoke to the manager......
Apparently I have no credit references and no credit rating.. 
Correct I told him.. that's because I am not a debtor.    I explained that for the last two houses we built, I paid cash, and that the only reason I required an account was for the huge discounts available.
Got the account but only at a greatly reduced credit limit!  
So now its an advantage to be a debtor apparently .. cash customers need not apply.
Makes me wonder where the economy is heading  
The B D I
I don't know what others think but I think the cash purchasers should be the ones rewarded with discounts and offered credit accounts. To me a person who manages their money and saves who are able to pay cash for everything is in a better position financially, and they have proven they can save money and make regular deposits into their bank just as a debtor has to do with their debt, and so the two situations are basically the same except the cash purchaser has no debt so there is another reason cash purchasers should get the credit.
But we live in a world where certain people and industry make money from the desperation and despair of others which undoubtedly lead to poor decision making ie taking out a loan when they can't afford the repayments etc and ending up in huge debt from late payment fees, with no way out. Which brings me to my next point. Why are they lending money to people who can't afford the repayments? Just like they write you out of something they can write you in if they chose.
They make up and word these contracts with the knowledge that desperate people will be attracted to them. Still not fully understanding, they sign their life away because they are desperate. As hunni says its all about money.
RE: Advantage to the debtors. - Magoo - 23-04-2022
excellent post
RE: Advantage to the debtors. - gr8dadof2 - 23-04-2022
(23-04-2022, 10:25 AM)Magoo Wrote: excellent postThanks. Yes I have been there and had a credit card and boy they had no problems 'applying' the rules to my account every month seemed to be an increase in the interest rate to the point it seemed 'it' was trying to offset my repayments so the balance wasn't going down much. Cunning thieves! I beat them in the end and paid off large amounts at a time and got rid of it fast. I saw the light. Never had a credit card since. Was AGC finance, crooked mongrels. It's one hell of a crooked system that's for sure, and we wonder why the rich are getting richer and the poor poorer. Go figure!
You shouldn't have to pay such a high price for borrowing money, even if you default the penalty should not be so harsh. It is a necessity today to have money and that is all they are doing, acquiring money so that they can carry on living. It's so backward to financially penalise a debtor who is trying but can't afford the repayments. Why the hell would they then put them into EVEN MORE! financial hardship. That's is so backward for forming a healthy population where we all move forward together not just a chosen few. The govts today want a 'sick' nation, namely a mentally sick nation because we are easier to manipulate, control, deceive and conquer. Sick people don't ask questions because they are too busy being 'sick' all the time. It's a real problem. I am just glad we had enough well people to oppose this covid bullshit.
RE: Advantage to the debtors. - Olive - 23-04-2022
(23-04-2022, 11:39 AM)gr8dadof2 Wrote:You seem to be confusing the government with the moneylending institutions.   They are not the same.
You shouldn't have to pay such a high price for borrowing money, even if you default the penalty should not be so harsh. It is a necessity today to have money and that is all they are doing, acquiring money so that they can carry on living. It's so backward to financially penalise a debtor who is trying but can't afford the repayments. Why the hell would they then put them into EVEN MORE! financial hardship. That's is so backward for forming a healthy population where we all move forward together not just a chosen few. The govts today want a 'sick' nation, namely a mentally sick nation because we are easier to manipulate, control, deceive and conquer. Sick people don't ask questions because they are too busy being 'sick' all the time. It's a real problem. I am just glad we had enough well people to oppose this covid bullshit.
 You also seem to be confused about the Covid response in Aotearoa.  It is not bullshit, it has saved thousands of lives.