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+--- Thread: He Pau Pau (/showthread.php?tid=1260)
He Pau Pau - Corky - 31-03-2022
Caution: Potentially Misleading or Disinformation
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RE: He Pau Pau - king1 - 31-03-2022
did you write this up or is it a copy and paste from somewhere?
Some of it I personally don't have a problem with - Maori representation in jail for example is disproportionately higher than Caucasians - clearly something needs to change for better outcomes. Same logic for health and Education...
It kind does read like (in tone) a conspiracy theorist manifesto, which is likely to get the boot pretty quickly around here... and yes mildly racist as well...
How about providing some links/ references to the more dubious claims for starters eg Maori having a separate government...
and I would be curious as to why you think funding marae upgrades is a bad thing, as against anything else governments fund...
RE: He Pau Pau - king1 - 31-03-2022
Ok, apparently HE PUAPUA is just a discussion document. To put everyone's mind at ease
, no "TSUNAMI OF CHANGES" is actually coming... A slightly more balanced viewpoint of HE PUAPUA is here
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/explained/125740914/the-contentious-he-puapua-plan-explained
RE: He Pau Pau - Oh_hunnihunni - 01-04-2022
Awww gee, more rubbish from some guy who feels threatened by change?
RE: He Pau Pau - Wainuiguy - 01-04-2022
(31-03-2022, 09:49 PM)king1 Wrote: Ok, apparently HE PUAPUA is just a discussion document.  To put everyone's mind at easeStuff is hardly balanced in these matters.  Part of them accepting any support funds from the Government was a requirement to embrace the principals of the Treaty and so they would be unlikely to speak out against This document.
A slightly more balanced viewpoint of HE PUAPUA is here
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/explained/125740914/the-contentious-he-puapua-plan-explained
However as a "discussion" document there are several things that have already been implemented or about to be implemented.
RE: He Pau Pau - king1 - 01-04-2022
(01-04-2022, 05:56 AM)Wainuiguy Wrote: dual governance has been ruled out apparently - conveniently not mentioned above. and as I mentioned earlier, there are good reasons to implement, or at least consider, some of the ideas...(31-03-2022, 09:49 PM)king1 Wrote: Ok, apparently HE PUAPUA is just a discussion document.  To put everyone's mind at easeStuff is hardly balanced in these matters.  Part of them accepting any support funds from the Government was a requirement to embrace the principals of the Treaty and so they would be unlikely to speak out against This document.
A slightly more balanced viewpoint of HE PUAPUA is here
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/explained/125740914/the-contentious-he-puapua-plan-explained
However as a "discussion" document there are several things that have already been implemented or about to be implemented.
Why would you think that the results of what was essentially a spitballing session, is going to be implemented in its entirety?
It's just fear mongering - but feel free to provide a link to a more balanced analysis of it?
  
RE: He Pau Pau - Magoo - 01-04-2022
he pua pua loosely translates as 'i beg your pardon'
RE: He Pau Pau - Wainuiguy - 01-04-2022
(01-04-2022, 07:36 AM)king1 Wrote:Because some of that "spitballing" is being implemented.  All of a sudden it doesn't look like spitballing.  Also the report was very quietly buried until a journalist dug it up.  The government say this was because we poor taxpayers and voters might have gotten confused - we evidently arent too bright in their eyes.  Of course the fact they have taken several aspects of this report and made it policy may have muddied the waters a bit.  Because now the "discussion paper" IS starting to look like government policy.   Policy that they did not campaign on.(01-04-2022, 05:56 AM)Wainuiguy Wrote: Stuff is hardly balanced in these matters.  Part of them accepting any support funds from the Government was a requirement to embrace the principals of the Treaty and so they would be unlikely to speak out against This document. dual governance has been ruled out apparently - conveniently not mentioned above. and as I mentioned earlier, there are good reasons to implement, or at least consider, some of the ideas...
However as a "discussion" document there are several things that have already been implemented or about to be implemented.
Why would you think that the results of what was essentially a spitballing session, is going to be implemented in its entirety?
It's just fear mongering - but feel free to provide a link to a more balanced analysis of it?
  
RE: He Pau Pau - Oh_hunnihunni - 01-04-2022
Sheesh.
They didn't campaign on covid either.
Off with their heads, bring back Trump.
RE: He Pau Pau - Magoo - 01-04-2022
Quote:wainuithey dont care, not the labour party nor their acolytes on this board.
Policy that they did not campaign on.
they never did anything they did campaigned on, so doing something they didnt campaign on is hardly news
if theyd thought of it they would have promised last time, and today it would remain incomplete and on the rocks.
they proved last time out they will say anything, anything, to get into power.
no matter how ludicrous, impossible or grandiose their plan, and this time it will have to be a doozy,
they know that once in power, watery excuses and feeble governance is enough to get by.
it worked last time.
RE: He Pau Pau - king1 - 01-04-2022
(01-04-2022, 09:31 AM)Wainuiguy Wrote:yep just a big old CT.  It is true that there are some members of NZ society that " arent too bright " and will pick up on anything the government does and twist it around into a big ol' conspiracy... We saw that a month or two ago...  No doubt this will bring out some more, or the same ones...(01-04-2022, 07:36 AM)king1 Wrote:  dual governance has been ruled out apparently - conveniently not mentioned above. and as I mentioned earlier, there are good reasons to implement, or at least consider, some of the ideas...Because some of that "spitballing" is being implemented.  All of a sudden it doesn't look like spitballing.  Also the report was very quietly buried until a journalist dug it up.  The government say this was because we poor taxpayers and voters might have gotten confused - we evidently arent too bright in their eyes.  Of course the fact they have taken several aspects of this report and made it policy may have muddied the waters a bit.  Because now the "discussion paper" IS starting to look like government policy.   Policy that they did not campaign on. 
Why would you think that the results of what was essentially a spitballing session, is going to be implemented in its entirety?
It's just fear mongering - but feel free to provide a link to a more balanced analysis of it?
  
It really is not surprising that some stuff is being implemented (perhaps you could enlighten me what) as there appear to be some good ideas in there...  But the authors themselves have suggested the purpose was to just develop ideas and a possible timeline, but knowing that some of it may be difficult or impossible to implement,  Governments of all forms do this all the time, it is simply evaluating all possible scenarios, but nothing is set in stone.  Don't know what all the hu ha is about...
 Not sure it really matters that they never campaigned on it, with such a long timeframe there is plenty of time for discussion...
RE: He Pau Pau - Magoo - 01-04-2022
and im not anti labour, im anti lies.
labour did an outstanding job with covid, full marks.
national couldnt have pulled it off.
labour party need to stop treating the public like idiots.
RE: He Pau Pau - Lilith7 - 01-04-2022
(01-04-2022, 04:40 AM)Oh_hunnihunni Wrote: Awww gee, more rubbish from some guy who feels threatened by change?There's a lot of it about. Humans really don't like change to a large extent - but life is change.
RE: He Pau Pau - king1 - 01-04-2022
(01-04-2022, 10:32 AM)Magoo Wrote: and im not anti labour, im anti lies.lol, so if Labour lied their way into government, we will find out at the next election if the public really are idiots , if/when labour get re-elected... 
labour did an outstanding job with covid, full marks.
national couldnt have pulled it off.
labour party need to stop treating the public like idiots.
Assuming that is the case then we will all have to admit we are all idiots, or acknowledge that maybe labour are doing an OK job...
It will be interesting, and certainly not the cakewalk Labour have had in the last couple of elections...
RE: He Pau Pau - Oh_hunnihunni - 01-04-2022
If critics of the current (whichever whenever) government put as much energy into actual political activity instead of just armchair whinging we would all be better lead...
RE: He Pau Pau - Magoo - 01-04-2022
(01-04-2022, 10:45 AM)king1 Wrote:yes.(01-04-2022, 10:32 AM)Magoo Wrote: and im not anti labour, im anti lies.lol, so if Labour lied their way into government, we will find out at the next election if the public really are idiots , if/when labour get re-elected... 
labour did an outstanding job with covid, full marks.
national couldnt have pulled it off.
labour party need to stop treating the public like idiots.
Assuming that is the case then we will all have to admit we are all idiots, or acknowledge that maybe labour are doing an OK job...
It will be interesting, and certainly not the cakewalk Labour have had in the last couple of elections...
yes.
yes.
RE: He Pau Pau - Wainuiguy - 01-04-2022
(01-04-2022, 10:45 AM)king1 Wrote:Labour had a cakewalk in 2020 not in 2017.  The 2017 election election was lost, in the end, by 1 vote.(01-04-2022, 10:32 AM)Magoo Wrote: and im not anti labour, im anti lies.lol, so if Labour lied their way into government, we will find out at the next election if the public really are idiots , if/when labour get re-elected... 
labour did an outstanding job with covid, full marks.
national couldnt have pulled it off.
labour party need to stop treating the public like idiots.
Assuming that is the case then we will all have to admit we are all idiots, or acknowledge that maybe labour are doing an OK job...
It will be interesting, and certainly not the cakewalk Labour have had in the last couple of elections...
RE: He Pau Pau - joe 90 - 01-04-2022
32 councils dont think 3waters is is a good idea & are vehemently against it . They see it as taking away something they &their ratepayers paid for . The PM hasnt ruled out IWI getting royalties from it either . So much of it is unclear Idout it will proceed with so many councils against it
RE: He Pau Pau - Wainuiguy - 01-04-2022
(01-04-2022, 10:21 AM)king1 Wrote:It is easy to label it a CT but there are things being implemented.   The pushing through of Maori seats on councils and the removal of their right to ask ratepayers if it is wanted, the reorganization of the health system where Māori will have veto power over all the system,  then 3 waters specifically payment of water rights to iwi.  And now the government saying they will "consult " on co-governance.  Wonder if that is the same way they consulted on 3 waters?(01-04-2022, 09:31 AM)Wainuiguy Wrote: Because some of that "spitballing" is being implemented.  All of a sudden it doesn't look like spitballing.  Also the report was very quietly buried until a journalist dug it up.  The government say this was because we poor taxpayers and voters might have gotten confused - we evidently arent too bright in their eyes.  Of course the fact they have taken several aspects of this report and made it policy may have muddied the waters a bit.  Because now the "discussion paper" IS starting to look like government policy.   Policy that they did not campaign on. yep just a big old CT.  It is true that there are some members of NZ society that " arent too bright " and will pick up on anything the government does and twist it around into a big ol' conspiracy... We saw that a month or two ago...  No doubt this will bring out some more, or the same ones...
It really is not surprising that some stuff is being implemented (perhaps you could enlighten me what) as there appear to be some good ideas in there...  But the authors themselves have suggested the purpose was to just develop ideas and a possible timeline, but knowing that some of it may be difficult or impossible to implement,  Governments of all forms do this all the time, it is simply evaluating all possible scenarios, but nothing is set in stone.  Don't know what all the hu ha is about...
 Not sure it really matters that they never campaigned on it, with such a long timeframe there is plenty of time for discussion...
RE: He Pau Pau - Oh_hunnihunni - 01-04-2022
Google how big the Maori population actually is, and then ponder how much of a threat to the average middle aged white guy they are. Heavens, a bit of shared governance over the important bits of this nation would be good for all of us. Especially considering how much that average white guy has benefited from the theft from and dominance of that tangata whenua population over the decades.
Talk about dog in the manger...