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+--- Thread: Should we drop MIQ? (/showthread.php?tid=1078)
Should we drop MIQ? - Wainuiguy - 01-02-2022
The idea behind MIQ was always the right one - Quarantine incoming people to keep Covid out.  Certainly in the early days of the pandemic that was good (let's not go into most if not all of the breaches occured via MIQ).
However with the virus no longer contained and numbers of infected in the community quickly outstripping the numbers in MIQ isn't this now time to disband MIQ?  I know the argument will be around another variant - but this virus isn't going away.  There will be many more variants to come and if they mutate along normal lines you will see those variants become more infectious but have less health risks.
Time to remove MIQ.
RE: Should we drop MIQ? - Oh_hunnihunni - 01-02-2022
No.
In fact we should just close the borders completely unless there really is a Very Good Reason to let some pestilential individual across it...
RE: Should we drop MIQ? - king1 - 01-02-2022
(01-02-2022, 08:00 AM)Oh_hunnihunni Wrote: No.Amen to that
In fact we should just close the borders completely unless there really is a Very Good Reason to let some pestilential individual across it...
RE: Should we drop MIQ? - Magoo - 01-02-2022
i might be with wainuiguy on this one.
we've done what we can, we isolated and vaccinated
with very good (albeit strong-armed) numbers participating
we protected the vulnerable and continue to mask up and boost for the littlies
there isnt much more we can do, we've prepared. time to open the gate and with any luck, gloat.
RE: Should we drop MIQ? - king1 - 01-02-2022
(01-02-2022, 08:17 AM)Magoo Wrote: i might be with wainuiguy on this one.too soon for that, if this expected outbreak doesn't happen to lead to 1000s of cases a day and does stay at a very modest couple of hundred, would you still be keen to open the flood gates? 
we've done what we can, we isolated and vaccinated
with very good (albeit strong-armed) numbers participating
we protected the vulnerable and continue to mask up and boost for the littlies
there isnt much more we can do, we've prepared. time to open the gate and with any luck, gloat.
If MIQ has taught us one thing it is that all cases have come from overseas, more than a fair share of travellers actually bring covid despite the testing requirements, and in some cases it is incredibly difficult to test reliably, with folks testing positive after two weeks, having tested negative in MIQ - we should be extending MIQ stays
Maybe a compromise of less travel restrictions but longer MIQ stays?
RE: Should we drop MIQ? - yousnoozeyoulose - 01-02-2022
Removing MIQ and just having home isolation, or opening up the borders completely?
RE: Should we drop MIQ? - Magoo - 01-02-2022
somehow home isolation doesnt seem relevant to a tourist
their home lies across the ocean they have no vested interest in our health
we can neither monitor nor punish.
i think we probly have to open the borders completely.
it has to be done eventually.
can we prepare any more than weve already done?
if not why not lets do this.
RE: Should we drop MIQ? - yousnoozeyoulose - 01-02-2022
Well, two days ago the OP had us pegged as having fewer ICU beds so under that logic I'm not sure we're that prepared.
Couple that with the current numbers of border cases from a tiny number of flights per week, are we ready for a a few hundred (plus) infected tourists coming through customs every day?
RE: Should we drop MIQ? - Wainuiguy - 01-02-2022
(01-02-2022, 08:46 AM)yousnoozeyoulose Wrote: Well, two days ago the OP had us pegged as having fewer ICU beds so under that logic I'm not sure we're that prepared.There are fewer ICU beds than at the start of the pandemic.
Couple that with the current numbers of border cases from a tiny number of flights per week, are we ready for a a few hundred (plus) infected tourists coming through customs every day?
BUT if cases reach thousands a day as predicted (though same predictions had omi cases at 50000 by Waitangi weekend) Then what are we keeping out using MIQ?
(01-02-2022, 08:00 AM)Oh_hunnihunni Wrote: No.Makes sense - keep infected out while infection in country runs rampant.
In fact we should just close the borders completely unless there really is a Very Good Reason to let some pestilential individual across it...
And wouldn't any incoming traveller's have to be double jabbed and have a negative test to travel here?
(01-02-2022, 08:17 AM)Magoo Wrote: i might be with wainuiguy on this one.Indeed- we simply can't hide forever.  There is no other preparation we can do to further protect ourselves.
we've done what we can, we isolated and vaccinated
with very good (albeit strong-armed) numbers participating
we protected the vulnerable and continue to mask up and boost for the littlies
there isnt much more we can do, we've prepared. time to open the gate and with any luck, gloat.
(01-02-2022, 08:26 AM)yousnoozeyoulose Wrote: Removing MIQ and just having home isolation, or opening up the borders completely?Potentially one moving to the other.  This will allow kiwis wanting to return to be able to without the hassle and cost of MIQ.  Once spread has fully occured then keeping others out will have little or no difference.
RE: Should we drop MIQ? - Oh_hunnihunni - 01-02-2022
We need more boosted before we do any of this...
RE: Should we drop MIQ? - Wainuiguy - 01-02-2022
(01-02-2022, 09:08 AM)Oh_hunnihunni Wrote: We need more boosted before we do any of this...And then?
Next variant - can't open until booster 4, booster 5, booster 6?
RE: Should we drop MIQ? - king1 - 01-02-2022
(01-02-2022, 09:18 AM)Wainuiguy Wrote:well that would depend on how much more the virus mutates, last I heard is the current boosters might be somewhat better at protecting against the BA2 than omicron... (01-02-2022, 09:08 AM)Oh_hunnihunni Wrote: We need more boosted before we do any of this...And then?
Next variant - can't open until booster 4, booster 5, booster 6?
I'm not sure how much sense it makes to open borders as soon as possible when you are on the precipice of an outbreak of 1000's a day, it just seems like pouring petrol on a fire to me...  at the least we should wait until the impending outbreak peaks and passes, then reassess.
RE: Should we drop MIQ? - Oldfellah - 01-02-2022
Im afraid Miss Ardern and this government with trying to keep us all safe are losing the plot , sure they did the right thing when the virus first came out in 2020 but this is NOT 2020 its 2022 and New Zealand needs to keep up with the rest of the world, the old saying use it or lose it comes to mind and at the moment we are losing it. Open the borders ,lets start trading again, bring back the tourists and the seasonal workers because this thing is going to hit us whether we like it or not so lets get it over and done with so we can all move on.
RE: Should we drop MIQ? - king1 - 01-02-2022
I recall a lot of backlash to the government mandates back in 2020.
So the Government did the right thing back in 2020 but not now? I wonder if all the folks who think the Government have it wrong now, might have a different opinion in two years, with the benefit of hindsight.
RE: Should we drop MIQ? - C_T_Russell - 01-02-2022
Drop it today!
Look at all the pregnant kiwis trying to come back home!
Its utter ridiculous that we cant get back to our home country. Ive got a friend in Australia who is still stuck there.
Now we have omicron in this country, what purpose does MIQ even serve?
Fully vaxxed and still have to get locked up.
The vaccine is a waste of time, and so is MIQ, lets just get on with it.
RE: Should we drop MIQ? - Praktica - 01-02-2022
I wonder if CT would like to share his public health qualifications with us - so we can judge if his opinion has any value?
RE: Should we drop MIQ? - C_T_Russell - 01-02-2022
(01-02-2022, 11:03 AM)Praktica Wrote: I wonder if CT would like to share his public health qualifications with us - so we can judge if his opinion has any value?What qualifications do I need to show that stopping (potentially infected) people entering NZ will slow the spread when we already have omicron in this country?
Especially the fact that we will likely be seeing thousands of omicron cases per day, with the few entering NZ will be a drop in the bucket in comparason.
As far as the vaccine working to stop omicron, I think we can all agree its doing absolutely nothing to stop its spread, and the science has already confirmed it anyway.
RE: Should we drop MIQ? - king1 - 01-02-2022
(01-02-2022, 11:16 AM)C_T_Russell Wrote:(01-02-2022, 11:03 AM)Praktica Wrote: I wonder if CT would like to share his public health qualifications with us - so we can judge if his opinion has any value?As far as the vaccine working to stop omicron, I think we can all agree its doing absolutely nothing to stop its spread, and the science has already confirmed it anyway.
I have already provided information (science brief from NZ Govt) in a previous post that is contrary to this claim?  Please provide a link to the science you speak of?
RE: Should we drop MIQ? - C_T_Russell - 01-02-2022
(01-02-2022, 11:32 AM)king1 Wrote:I cant see any link you have posted anywhere here.(01-02-2022, 11:16 AM)C_T_Russell Wrote: As far as the vaccine working to stop omicron, I think we can all agree its doing absolutely nothing to stop its spread, and the science has already confirmed it anyway.
I have already provided information (science brief from NZ Govt) in a previous post that is contrary to this claim?  Please provide a link to the science you speak of?
I dont even need to share science, the fact is that this extremely contagious virus is still spreading amongst fully vaxxed people, hence why they want to still keep MIQ running.
Its getting pointless now however due to omicron already established in NZ.
Anyway, here is some science from the MSM, they claim at "BEST" 30-40%, and I would say its much, much more lower than that at stopping spread, our govt is already concerned about the spread of omicron and they openly admit on the news that fully vaxxed are spreading it. In fact, in most cases its only fully vaxxed spreading it, in part because most of the population are vaxxed, so naturally its only vaxxed spreading it in many cases. Please note a "reduction" in transmission is not the same as "stopping" transmission. Even if we got at best a 40% reduction in transmission, thats still pretty poor as far as something that reduces spread, that means at least 60% are still spreading the virus.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/how-effective-are-covid-19-vaccines-against-omicron
And here its quoting the CDC director who has openly said its no longer stopping its spread, I dont think anyone can disagree with this.
https://www.shorenewsnetwork.com/2022/01/10/cdc-director-covid-19-vaccines-no-longer-prevent-transmission/
RE: Should we drop MIQ? - king1 - 01-02-2022
(01-02-2022, 11:43 AM)C_T_Russell Wrote:This is the link I posted elsewhere(01-02-2022, 11:32 AM)king1 Wrote: I have already provided information (science brief from NZ Govt) in a previous post that is contrary to this claim?  Please provide a link to the science you speak of?I cant see any link you have posted anywhere here.
I dont even need to share science, the fact is that this extremely contagious virus is still spreading amongst fully vaxxed people, hence why they want to still keep MIQ running.
Its getting pointless now however due to omicron already established in NZ.
Anyway, here is some science from the MSM, they claim at "BEST" 30-40%, and I would say its much, much more lower than that at stopping spread, our govt is already concerned about the spread of omicron and they openly admit on the news that fully vaxxed are spreading it. In fact, in most cases its only fully vaxxed spreading it, in part because most of the population are vaxxed, so naturally its only vaxxed spreading it in many cases. Please note a "reduction" in transmission is not the same as "stopping" transmission. Even if we got at best a 40% reduction in transmission, thats still pretty poor as far as something that reduces spread, that means at least 60% are still spreading the virus.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/how-effective-are-covid-19-vaccines-against-omicron
And here its quoting the CDC director who has openly said its no longer stopping its spread, I dont think anyone can disagree with this.
https://www.shorenewsnetwork.com/2022/01/10/cdc-director-covid-19-vaccines-no-longer-prevent-transmission/
https://www.health.govt.nz/system/files/documents/pages/science_updates_7_may_2021.pdf
Towards the end it discusses it - it is clear from that, and from what I read of your information even, that there is some benefit and reduction of viral transmission from the vaccine and boosters.  
I do note that it is from last year though, but I would like to see some more science on this matter,  you seem to be implying yourself that there is a greater than Zero benefit to be had, contrary to what you have stated