+- Too Many Message Boards (http://tmmb.mywire.org)
+-- Forum: General Topics (http://tmmb.mywire.org/forumdisplay.php?fid=5)
+--- Forum: News and Current Affairs (http://tmmb.mywire.org/forumdisplay.php?fid=74)
+--- Thread: What will it take? (/showthread.php?tid=1126)
RE: What will it take? - Oldfellah - 19-02-2022
(19-02-2022, 03:08 PM)ObeWan Wrote: They have been advised what is required.I agree, clear the streets pull down the tents, and then be listened to.
Do what is reasonably asked of you. Clear the illegally parked vehicles off the streets into the free parking provided by the council and then you might see more engagement.
Negotiation is a two way street, you cant have it all your own way.
RE: What will it take? - Lilith7 - 19-02-2022
(19-02-2022, 02:02 PM)C_T_Russell Wrote: If you want to make the protesters go away, just listen to them!Most of us are well aware that they're anti mandate. And that there are several different groups. And that some have been abusing passers by & causing traffic problems, & what's worse shown either ignorance, disrespect or both by using a section of the Cenotaph to set up  either a toilet or shower.
FFS, all they need to to is listen, even if the govt doesnt agree, just listen to their concerns and acknowledge them.
At least David Seymour talked to them like a civilised person.
Should be noted that there are several groups there with different agendas, but putting any crackpot beliefs aside, most of them are sharing the same anti-mandate views and thats something that should be worked on as a common interest.
Even Heather Du Plessis Allan agrees, the same person not long ago giving the unvaxxed a hard time for not taking the jab.
Pro-choice is the key here.
If there were no mandates, perhaps these people would still have a job and be at work rather than protesting outside parliament!
https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/heather-du-plessis-allan-drive/opinion/heather-du-plessis-allan-do-these-protesters-have-a-point/?fbclid=IwAR2AxDkwQl3Ksf74O3GU5Jm3qbn4EuzgSw4JxCsVP5GvGpGi5VASMXcGht4
They cannot seem to grasp that, while no one wants the mandate, there simply isn't another option - unless we want covid to spread even faster & further.
Those protesting might do well to look at recent history, in particular the effects of polio & TB & the rate of infections in earlier times compared to today.
RE: What will it take? - Oldfellah - 19-02-2022
Does this Salute look familiar?
RE: What will it take? - Lilith7 - 19-02-2022
(19-02-2022, 04:38 PM)Oldfellah Wrote: Does this Salute look familiar?Scarily close; although it does sort of also look a bit like a one armed evangelical  blissed out Christian gesture, too.
RE: What will it take? - SueDonim - 20-02-2022
(19-02-2022, 02:02 PM)C_T_Russell Wrote: If you want to make the protesters go away, just listen to them!
FFS, all they need to to is listen, even if the govt doesnt agree, just listen to their concerns and acknowledge them.
At least David Seymour talked to them like a civilised person.
Should be noted that there are several groups there with different agendas, but putting any crackpot beliefs aside, most of them are sharing the same anti-mandate views and thats something that should be worked on as a common interest.
Even Heather Du Plessis Allan agrees, the same person not long ago giving the unvaxxed a hard time for not taking the jab.
Pro-choice is the key here.
If there were no mandates, perhaps these people would still have a job and be at work rather than protesting outside parliament!
https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/heather-du-plessis-allan-drive/opinion/heather-du-plessis-allan-do-these-protesters-have-a-point/?fbclid=IwAR2AxDkwQl3Ksf74O3GU5Jm3qbn4EuzgSw4JxCsVP5GvGpGi5VASMXcGht4
I think the biggest problem is the word "mandate". I think all along we have had undue negativity from the words that came into our everyday language:
Lockdown. The country (and most of the western world) had to shut down.  It was essential and understood by most people. But the word used was "lockdown" which had negative connotations. We were never "locked" down. We always had the right to go to the supermarket, to walk around block. To day "Hi" to the neighbour over the fence. But for the glass half empty people, the word "lockdown" was always there and made some people feel it was true.
Social distancing. It was personal distancing. We were able to stay reasonably social by email, phone or a 2m distant chat while out walking. We just had to maintain personal distance while doing so. And again, the widely used term of social distancing made some people feel isolated, whilst also allowing them to forget that when walking on the street they had to give others a wide berth. It was scary when I had to walk from my car to work and people on the footpath, eg walking their dog, totally failed to give an inch of space.
Now we have "mandates". An interesting word that. Being used here of course in the sense of a command having been made. But it also means the authority we have give to the government. We voted them in ("we" being the democratic election) and therefore gave them the responsibility to do the best they could for all of the people, including a mandate that allowed them to make the rules that will best keep us safe.
It's hard to find a softer word that has the same meaning as it is a legal directive however you look at it. But looking at these current "mandates" that have so many protestors fired up (not all of them of course, some are just "anti-gummint" no matter what), what is the problem?
- for some it's because it was important to be vaccinated in their jobs for their own safety or their customers', patients', or students' safety. The actual vaccination was voluntary and they made a choice not look after their own or others' safety so lost their jobs.
- for some it is what seems to me to be the sensible action of not congregating in large numbers. A differential was made between places where larger numbers of vaccinated people or smaller numbers including unvaccinated could gather. A good choice for those managing such events/places. There were options and it only affects those that want to go to those places. They usually don't actually need to. Mostly it's hospitality that is suffering and while I feel for people whose businesses are struggling, hospitality has always been a fickle high-risk business anyway. That's evidenced by how often they change hands and/or reinvent themselves trying to be the latest place where the people will go. It is far from essential.
- the requirement to wear masks at places of risk. Common sense. The mandate has to be because of the stupid people who won't (still allowing for the very few who can't). And ditto for the covid app. A useful way to track where you've been if you should find that you need to.
I thouight Heather du Plessis's article was rather naive and unhelpful. She reflected what some people feel. Fine, except that they are lacking that same awareness that she showed about the overall picture and the importance of the things that have had to ordered because of the people who simply wouldn't follow commonsense advice. And have now shown their true colours in their willingness to disrupt Wellington city in a way that is totally unacceptable.
RE: What will it take? - Oh_hunnihunni - 20-02-2022
I don't get the mandate objection. We have heaps of mandates in our community, do they want freedom from those too?
RE: What will it take? - Serf407 - 20-02-2022
(20-02-2022, 10:12 AM)Oh_hunnihunni Wrote: I don't get the mandate objection. We have heaps of mandates in our community, do they want freedom from those too?What part of experimental and longitudinal studies do you need to be explained?
RE: What will it take? - Lilith7 - 20-02-2022
We wear helmets when riding a bike or motorbike, seat belts when in a car, we look before crossing the street & we try to avoid touching live wires & naked flames.
Because those things can do us harm, or even kill us so being careful, taking precautions to stay safe makes sense. Just as, if visiting a foreign country we might first get the relevant injections to avoid picking up a disease, we also get ourselves & our children vaccinated against various things.
Because it makes good sense to keep ourselves & our whanau as safe as is possible, & that is why so many have chosen to get the vaccination, to be double jabbed, to get the booster.
Because it makes sense & we don't want to become ill & perhaps pass it on to someone who has health problems, or who is too young to be vaccinated.
It has to be mandated, because some jobs involve being with large or small groups of people; those are the people who must have the vaccination or who must run the risk of becoming ill & infecting others.
And for some that has to mean losing their job, if they genuinely cannot comprehend the why of vaccination.
RE: What will it take? - king1 - 20-02-2022
(20-02-2022, 10:29 AM)Serf407 Wrote:well I would counter that with - which part of people dying do you need to be explained?(20-02-2022, 10:12 AM)Oh_hunnihunni Wrote: I don't get the mandate objection. We have heaps of mandates in our community, do they want freedom from those too?What part of experimental and longitudinal studies do you need to be explained?
RE: What will it take? - Olive - 20-02-2022
(20-02-2022, 10:12 AM)Oh_hunnihunni Wrote: I don't get the mandate objection. We have heaps of mandates in our community, do they want freedom from those too?I think  the insurrection has gone far beyond the point where we can look for rationality.   There are so many outside forces in play, the various insurrectionist tribes are at odds with one another, the nutcases are increasing.   The latest nutcase to arrive is Richard Sivell, a self-professed Nazi who encourages hangings.
RE: What will it take? - Magoo - 20-02-2022
the other mandates dont affect them. theyre just butthurt because we have accurately dismissed them as idiots.
we dont want to listen to their gripes, because weve seen it all before. all the weirdo shit they spout online.
the reason we all found it so easy to dismiss them and their POV is because they are delusional, we have no choice.
how did we know who the idiots were before Covid?
RE: What will it take? - Oldfellah - 20-02-2022
Another from the Herald.
Steve Braunias helpfully translates a New Zealand Police press release dealing with the trouble in Wellington.
Police Commissioner Andrew Coster says negotiation and de-escalation are the only safe, and therefore most desirable, way to resolve the Wellington protest.
Translation: Doing as little as possible might work.
"Police's current assessment of the situation is that any enforcement action by Police runs a serious risk of much wider harm than the protest is presently creating."
Translation: We'd like to smash their faces in but that might backfire.
"We continue to carefully navigate our options to reopen the roads, but the most desirable way to end this safely, is to encourage open communication channels."
Translation: We have no choice but to bend over and take a jolly good rogering.
"Yesterday's statement from the Speaker of the House has provided a window of opportunity for protesters who wish to have their views heard by Parliament, to clear the roads and restrict the protest to Parliament grounds."
Translation: At least that supercilious prick Mallard has knocked off that crap with the sprinklers.
"Police has had constructive engagement with some key protest leaders following the release of the statement and our focus is to deepen those discussions."
Translation: One of their wackos has said they'll think about getting back to us.
"In the current circumstances, enforcement action taken by Police runs the real risk of injury to the public, escalation in numbers of people, and a transition away from a largely peaceful protest to violence."
Translation: We'd like to smash their faces in but that might backfire.
"In our assessment, the only safe option at the present point in time is a continued focus on de-escalation."
Translation: We have absolutely no idea how to handle this.
"As the protest at Parliament enters its 11th day, Police continues to make progress in engaging with key protest groups."
Translation: We've gotten nowhere.
"While there were no incidents of note overnight, Police remain concerned at the road blockages caused by protest vehicles, and the inability of emergency services to access through roads."
Translation: Let's not look at the forest. Let's look at some trees.
"The number of people, structures and vehicles has continued to grow over the past 24 hours. Police also anticipate a significant number of people joining the protest over the weekend."
Translation: We're fucked.
"We recognise the ongoing impact from the protest, particularly on residents and users in the surrounding area."
Translation: It's a fiasco.
"Police has increased its patrols and will maintain a highly visible, reassurance presence."
Translation: We will stand around in great numbers, doing nothing.
"Today we will be putting in place a traffic management plan to control vehicle numbers to ensure that fire and ambulance vehicles are able to access the protest site."
Translation: One of their wackos had a fit or something, and the ambulance couldn't get through.
"The option to move vehicles to Sky Stadium remains open and we encourage people to make greater use of this so that those who live and work in the area can go about their lawful business unimpeded by the protest activity."
Translation: This is a lousy idea that no one wants a bar of and doesn't make a lick of difference but whatever, just thought I'd mention it.
"Police will continue to focus on keeping the peace, maintaining safety and engaging with the protesters over the coming weekend."
Translation: We are completely and utterly powerless.
"I want to again acknowledge our staff, many of whom have been deployed at short notice, for what has been a challenging assignment."
Translation: That arrest of the naked protester was quite exciting!
"They have conducted themselves in an incredibly professional and reassuring manner."
Translation: We'd really, really like to smash their faces in but that's not how I do things around here.
Listen. There's no playbook for this. We're on a hiding to nothing. But there's one bright spot on the horizon. If you think I look bad, what about the press conferences given by Wellington District Commander Superintendent Corrie Parnell! Poor guy! Hopeless! Anyway. At the end of the day, it could be worse. They're not rioting, or looting, or smashing letterboxes. It's okay. The protest will end. One of these days.
By Steve Braunias
NZ Herald Senior Writer
RE: What will it take? - Oh_hunnihunni - 20-02-2022
(20-02-2022, 10:29 AM)Serf407 Wrote:Tell you what, you list your qualifications that suggest you are in a position to explain those, and I'll list mine.(20-02-2022, 10:12 AM)Oh_hunnihunni Wrote: I don't get the mandate objection. We have heaps of mandates in our community, do they want freedom from those too?What part of experimental and longitudinal studies do you need to be explained?
Pissing contests are always fun.
(20-02-2022, 10:51 AM)king1 Wrote:From someone self described as a serf?  I doubt they look beyond their own two feet.(20-02-2022, 10:29 AM)Serf407 Wrote: What part of experimental and longitudinal studies do you need to be explained?well I would counter that with - which part of people dying do you need to be explained?
(20-02-2022, 11:02 AM)Olive Wrote:Tantrums by toddler brains.(20-02-2022, 10:12 AM)Oh_hunnihunni Wrote: I don't get the mandate objection. We have heaps of mandates in our community, do they want freedom from those too?I think  the insurrection has gone far beyond the point where we can look for rationality.   There are so many outside forces in play, the various insurrectionist tribes are at odds with one another, the nutcases are increasing.   The latest nutcase to arrive is Richard Sivell, a self-professed Nazi who encourages hangings.
(20-02-2022, 10:36 AM)Lilith7 Wrote: We wear helmets when riding a bike or motorbike, seat belts when in a car, we look before crossing the street & we try to avoid touching live wires & naked flames.A choice is still a choice, even when some of those options available are unpleasant.
Because those things can do us harm, or even kill us so being careful, taking precautions to stay safe makes sense. Just as, if visiting a foreign country we might first get the relevant injections to avoid picking up a disease, we also get ourselves & our children vaccinated against various things.
Because it makes good sense to keep ourselves & our whanau as safe as is possible, & that is why so many have chosen to get the vaccination, to be double jabbed, to get the booster.
Because it makes sense & we don't want to become ill & perhaps pass it on to someone who has health problems, or who is too young to be vaccinated.
It has to be mandated, because some jobs involve being with large or small groups of people; those are the people who must have the vaccination or who must run the risk of becoming ill & infecting others.
And for some that has to mean losing their job, if they genuinely cannot comprehend the why of vaccination.
Life can be like that.
RE: What will it take? - Lilith7 - 20-02-2022
(20-02-2022, 11:02 AM)Olive Wrote:I had to look him up. He doesn't appear to be altogether  well, mentally. Not sure why but it seems that people like him often claim to be 'patriots.'(20-02-2022, 10:12 AM)Oh_hunnihunni Wrote: I don't get the mandate objection. We have heaps of mandates in our community, do they want freedom from those too?I think  the insurrection has gone far beyond the point where we can look for rationality.   There are so many outside forces in play, the various insurrectionist tribes are at odds with one another, the nutcases are increasing.   The latest nutcase to arrive is Richard Sivell, a self-professed Nazi who encourages hangings.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300052475/german-councillor-called-nazi-in-letter-box-drop-over-driveway-dispute
After being told by Schulte that failure to pay rates could see the council getting a court order to on-sell the property, Sivell fired back claming Schulte is ÔÇ£threatening an Anzac patriot, law-abiding, landowner with taking his land off him and selling itÔÇØ.
RE: What will it take? - Oh_hunnihunni - 20-02-2022
Interesting watching the petition numbers going up. Just listen to the protestors? Maybe they should listen to the majority.
#endtheprotest
RE: What will it take? - Oldfellah - 20-02-2022
Time for tear gas and pepper spray!
RE: What will it take? - Oh_hunnihunni - 20-02-2022
Nope. Just nice cold water, delivered with a modicum of force...
RE: What will it take? - Magoo - 20-02-2022
2am, electricity off, music up ac/dc
500 officers with night vision enter the site and arrest and cuff at least three people each.
tasers ok, nightsticks as a reasonable defence.
tippy toe in
shock and awe over before it starts.
even the media miss out
wake up to game over
nothing concrete on film too dark
no protesters to interview.
clean.
or
infiltrate the protesters to the point you closely number them.
send in the uniforms and let the ones inside to assist as needed.
stealthy
RE: What will it take? - Lilith7 - 20-02-2022
Or leave them there. Till Winter.....
RE: What will it take? - Magoo - 20-02-2022
theyre a blight on the landscape
a pox on wellington
an insult to our government, all parties.
they are unhygienic, dirty, destructive and guilty of hate speak, trespass, disorderly behaviour
threats to kill, intimidation, littering, alcohol inside in a zone.
not to mention the poor citizens trying to get through an already tough time