+- Too Many Message Boards (http://tmmb.mywire.org)
+-- Forum: General Topics (http://tmmb.mywire.org/forumdisplay.php?fid=5)
+--- Forum: Opinion and Politics (http://tmmb.mywire.org/forumdisplay.php?fid=75)
+--- Thread: He Pau Pau (/showthread.php?tid=1260)
RE: He Pau Pau - joe 90 - 03-04-2022
But what they get is far out of proportion to their population   .   50%for 15% of the populaion    say in all things isnt   small   . .  The  worst of it is   its not    a democratic  decision    its by  a parliamentary  vote  where labour /greeens hold an absolute majority   .      A true     method would be  by citizens  binding    referenendum     but they  havent enen asked  if we want it     &  call they   it democracy  .    There is going to be more trouble ahead      i predict
RE: He Pau Pau - Lilith7 - 03-04-2022
(03-04-2022, 04:55 PM)Wainuiguy Wrote:Of course.(03-04-2022, 03:01 PM)king1 Wrote: i'd like to know why wainuiguy seems to think someone has two accounts, he's mentioned that a few times.  Is there a conspiracy afoot? or is it just easier to believe that, rather than, god forbid, more than one person disagrees with you....No just wondering as Olive and Hunni seem to take turns having their hand up liliths bum like a ventriloquist.
(03-04-2022, 02:48 PM)Lilith7 Wrote:  It isn't too difficult to look at the links Hunni posted surely. But perhaps you prefer to ignore the differences in the way people are treated, based on race.And I did look at them- they are stats based on race true but don't mention how people are treated just that some races have various outcomes.  And there will be several reasons for that and racism is unlikely to be one of them.
You could also look at other countries - the Irish potato famine, perhaps during which the Brits continued to export large amounts of various food stuffs. While people starved to death.
Or the famines in India under British rule.
Or America more recently, native American healthcare.
https://www.americanbar.org/groups/crsj/publications/human_rights_magazine_home/the-state-of-healthcare-in-the-united-states/native-american-crisis-in-health-equity/
Just as a matter of interest, (& without much hope of a reasonable reply)  is there anything at all you see as being caused by racism?
RE: He Pau Pau - Oh_hunnihunni - 03-04-2022
Okay. If this inequity isn't embedded institutional racism, what are those other factors that might explain the situation?
RE: He Pau Pau - Wainuiguy - 03-04-2022
(03-04-2022, 03:01 PM)king1 Wrote: i'd like to know why wainuiguy seems to think someone has two accounts, he's mentioned that a few times.  Is there a conspiracy afoot? or is it just easier to believe that, rather than, god forbid, more than one person disagrees with you....Pretty sure I have mentioned 2 accounts once in this thread and never previously - and it wasn't actually serious.  But then you lefties seem to be bereft of any kind of humour.
Is this like when you said I abused Ardern for her looks yet when challenged couldn't actually produce that statement?
(03-04-2022, 07:02 PM)Lilith7 Wrote:Hmmmm this seems to be, what was the term,  sealioning? And didn't King1 say that was a form of harassment?(03-04-2022, 04:55 PM)Wainuiguy Wrote: No just wondering as Olive and Hunni seem to take turns having their hand up liliths bum like a ventriloquist.Of course.
And I did look at them- they are stats based on race true but don't mention how people are treated just that some races have various outcomes.  And there will be several reasons for that and racism is unlikely to be one of them.
Just as a matter of interest, (& without much hope of a reasonable reply)  is there anything at all you see as being caused by racism?
(03-04-2022, 08:09 PM)Oh_hunnihunni Wrote: Okay. If this inequity isn't embedded institutional racism, what are those other factors that might explain the situation?Genetics, failure to have early intervention, other heath issues such as obesity, poor health choices including smoking.   Just a few.  One of the biggest factors for both Maori and PI is not seeking early help.  This is said to be a cultural issue but when you have supposedly intelligent women like the previous minister of CD (Kiri someone?) Who didn't seek help it set a poor example for others.
So European and Asians have better outcomes because they seek help earlier or have less underlying issues.
RE: He Pau Pau - Magoo - 03-04-2022
i dont do racism, we took the land, it needs to be redressed.
but i dont believe race based governance can work. two different topics imo
we dont have to wonder what might happen if co-governance based on race is instituted. (inflicted)
and we dont have to look far to see what to expect
how is south africa doing? its been 30 years, it must be a multi cultural utopia by now surely.
but no, its more like mogadishu
Zimbabwe? rwanda?
if you think its going to end in champagne and cuddles then you are sadly mistaken.
i cannot think of a country where race based government works.
im not being racist, im being realistic.
RE: He Pau Pau - Oh_hunnihunni - 04-04-2022
I don't think sharing governance between the indigenous and the colonists is race based. I think it's respectful.
RE: He Pau Pau - Magoo - 04-04-2022
(04-04-2022, 06:24 AM)Oh_hunnihunni Wrote: I don't think sharing governance between the indigenous and the colonists is race based. I think it's respectful.'sharing' is a lovely sentiment, and wouldnt life be rosy if we were all respectful.
indigenous populations and colonists are frozen in time now, and if governed based on race, skin colour, tribal affiliation cannot evolve to form one cohesive society. if it can, weve yet to see it, anywhere. why would we be different?
england was colonised multiple times, and if the Romans had stayed perhaps they would have colonised nz. 
what if they became woke back then, and said no more colonising. then england as a nation or a people of identity would not exist, it would be a roman colony. 
whoever occupied the day it was frozen, stays occupied.
kind of a 'finders keepers' arrangement, shouldnt be so, but is.
give the maori people back their land, let them self govern if they wish (ala american indians), but dont make laws and legislate to force them to govern with us or us them, thats just as bad as forcing them apart (apartheid).
im happy to be proven wrong. anywhere on this scorched planet race based governance is working?
RE: He Pau Pau - Oh_hunnihunni - 04-04-2022
Is it race based though, if it is simply acknowledging historic wrongs and attempting to make positive changes for the future?
Is allowing the Scottish Parliament to exist a form of race based co governance? Because that seems to work quite well, albeit not always without issue. And Aotearoa New Zealand is slightly bigger than the UK in size, if not population (a difference for which we should all be suitably thankful), so maybe that is a workable comparison. It even has the language and cultural aspect...
RE: He Pau Pau - Magoo - 04-04-2022
(04-04-2022, 07:42 AM)Oh_hunnihunni Wrote: Is it race based though, if it is simply acknowledging historic wrongs and attempting to make positive changes for the future?we want to address the historic wrongs and make positive change.
Is allowing the Scottish Parliament to exist a form of race based co governance? Because that seems to work quite well, albeit not always without issue. And Aotearoa New Zealand is slightly bigger than the UK in size, if not population (a difference for which we should all be suitably thankful), so maybe that is a workable comparison. It even has the language  and cultural aspect...
we dont want to legislate governance in a democracy. 
forcing 'cultural' participation will be every bit as damaging as excluding it.
it has to evolve.
anything else has proven to be too paradigm of a shift, especially for the host peoples.
(ask aboriginal elders what financial redress has done to their already battered community's)
again, im only commentating using retrospect, potentially it would be truly awesome if we could somehow pull it off. its just that no one else has thus far.
reality.
(btw culturally and ideologically the scots and the english are not that far apart)
RE: He Pau Pau - Wainuiguy - 04-04-2022
(04-04-2022, 07:11 AM)Magoo Wrote:Don't worry you wont be proven wrong.(04-04-2022, 06:24 AM)Oh_hunnihunni Wrote: I don't think sharing governance between the indigenous and the colonists is race based. I think it's respectful.'sharing' is a lovely sentiment, and wouldnt life be rosy if we were all respectful.
indigenous populations and colonists are frozen in time now, and if governed based on race, skin colour, tribal affiliation cannot evolve to form one cohesive society. if it can, weve yet to see it, anywhere. why would we be different?
england was colonised multiple times, and if the Romans had stayed perhaps they would have colonised nz. 
what if they became woke back then, and said no more colonising. then england as a nation or a people of identity would not exist, it would be a roman colony. 
whoever occupied the day it was frozen, stays occupied.
kind of a 'finders keepers' arrangement, shouldnt be so, but is.
give the maori people back their land, let them self govern if they wish (ala american indians), but dont make laws and legislate to force them to govern with us or us them, thats just as bad as forcing them apart (apartheid).
im happy to be proven wrong. anywhere on this scorched planet race based governance is working?
RE: He Pau Pau - Oh_hunnihunni - 04-04-2022
(04-04-2022, 07:54 AM)Magoo Wrote:Not that far apart?(04-04-2022, 07:42 AM)Oh_hunnihunni Wrote: Is it race based though, if it is simply acknowledging historic wrongs and attempting to make positive changes for the future?we want to address the historic wrongs and make positive change.
Is allowing the Scottish Parliament to exist a form of race based co governance? Because that seems to work quite well, albeit not always without issue. And Aotearoa New Zealand is slightly bigger than the UK in size, if not population (a difference for which we should all be suitably thankful), so maybe that is a workable comparison. It even has the language  and cultural aspect...
we dont want to legislate governance in a democracy. 
forcing 'cultural' participation will be every bit as damaging as excluding it.
it has to evolve.
anything else has proven to be too paradigm of a shift, especially for the host peoples.
(ask aboriginal elders what financial redress has done to their already battered community's)
again, im only commentating using retrospect, potentially it would be truly awesome if we could somehow pull it off. its just that no one else has thus far.
reality.
(btw culturally and ideologically the scots and the english are not that far apart)
You are not a Scot, obviously...
Btw, we are not Australia. Yet another blessing to be eternally grateful for.
RE: He Pau Pau - Lilith7 - 04-04-2022
Sea lioning is asking for information - proof of what's being said & when it's provided, disagreeing, then asking for more proof, etc etc etc.
https://everydayfeminism.com/2017/01/sealioning/
I asked once.
Incidentally the idea that Maori make "poor health choices, including smoking" is an interesting comment. Especially in view of the fact that within living memory, large numbers of the population smoked, & it was at that time acceptable, to the point where the forces were issued cigarettes during WW2 since it was thought to help with stress.
It does seem then that that particular poor health choice wasn't & isn't made solely by Maori.
RE: He Pau Pau - Oh_hunnihunni - 04-04-2022
I make poor health choices. Fortunately I am white, educated, middle class and assertive.
RE: He Pau Pau - Wainuiguy - 04-04-2022
Maori and PI people smoke more than many other racial groups.
RE: He Pau Pau - Magoo - 04-04-2022
ive tried to make decent health choices.
i suppose all the drugs and alcohol i consumed back in the day didnt help.
both of my brothers are health conscious, and both suffer several maladies.
whereas ive smoked like a train, drank enough liquor and enough drugs that even keith tichards told me to ease up.
and i enjoy excellent health.
i consider myself to be a very lucky bear indeed.
RE: He Pau Pau - Oh_hunnihunni - 04-04-2022
I missed the ventriloquist comment. I find it deeply offensive and disrespectful.
I will no longer contribute to this poster's masturbatory fantasies.
RE: He Pau Pau - Magoo - 04-04-2022
i didnt make said comment did i?
oh dear
its faster just to tell me when i faux pas.
im not very good at subtle.
RE: He Pau Pau - Lilith7 - 04-04-2022
(04-04-2022, 06:08 PM)Oh_hunnihunni Wrote: I missed the ventriloquist comment. I find it deeply offensive and disrespectful.Nasty jibes like that are common enough over the way, as is blatant racism, which is why I now very seldom bother looking at it or posting.
I will no longer contribute to this poster's masturbatory fantasies.
RE: He Pau Pau - Magoo - 04-04-2022
(04-04-2022, 06:53 PM)Lilith7 Wrote:its really nasty in there, like a toxic fantasyland.(04-04-2022, 06:08 PM)Oh_hunnihunni Wrote: I missed the ventriloquist comment. I find it deeply offensive and disrespectful.Nasty jibes like that are common enough over the way, as is blatant racism, which is why I now very seldom bother looking at it or posting.
I will no longer contribute to this poster's masturbatory fantasies.
the racism, and rumour mongering has gotten very bad.
i like to go in and take screenies, i share them on my reddit sub.
we all have a laugh.
some of its pure gold.
RE: He Pau Pau - Wainuiguy - 04-04-2022
(04-04-2022, 06:08 PM)Oh_hunnihunni Wrote: I missed the ventriloquist comment. I find it deeply offensive and disrespectful.Yeah I really don't think that you would be my masterbatory fantasy.  The fact you went that direction says more about you than me.
I will no longer contribute to this poster's masturbatory fantasies.