(16-11-2021, 09:36 PM)egem Wrote: "No that's just more antivaxxer pseudo science pie in the sky BS."

Which part?

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You don't think it's selfish for someone to impose their will upon others? Not even a little bit?

(16-11-2021, 09:36 PM)egem Wrote: "No that's just more antivaxxer pseudo science pie in the sky BS."

Which part?

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(16-11-2021, 09:23 PM)videomonkey Wrote: Nope, one could not argue that, because┬áitÔÇÖs about the entire bloody human race. The beauty of getting vaccinated is it protects you and literally everybody else too. In what warped reality is that selfish?

At the end of the day, the added benefit of vaccine mandates is it rids our education and healthcare sectors of people who are selfish, stupid, donÔÇÖt believe in science, or all of the above.

You don't think it's selfish for someone to impose their will upon others? Not even a little bit?

(16-11-2021, 06:54 PM)egem Wrote:

(15-11-2021, 03:57 PM)namtak Wrote: Just imagine, when Covid catches up with the un-vaccinated, how the IQ of the rest of New Zealanders will rise.

I doubt it'll change much actually seeing as most of them will still be alive.

(15-11-2021, 01:09 PM)Oh_hunnihunni Wrote: I was cheered to see Ngati Toa telling protesters not to use their haka...

(16-11-2021, 07:12 PM)Oh_hunnihunni Wrote: Everyone has principles though, and there is no rule that they should all match. In fact, we would be a very bland society if that were the case.

And while I might not agree with them, they do have a right to hold to their values, and take the consequences. Just as we all do.

(17-11-2021, 08:02 AM)crafters_corner Wrote: I simply can't agree with those of you, who are talking about 'freedom of choice' as a good enough reason to not be vaxxed.

We are entitled to our personal preferences and choices but only if they do not betray the human rights of others. We are not entitled to being more worthy of our human value than another human being. ... Your freedom of choice (or mine) does not trump the human rights of another. It can be no other way in a civil society.

(17-11-2021, 07:37 AM)nzoomed Wrote:

(16-11-2021, 07:12 PM)Oh_hunnihunni Wrote: Everyone has principles though, and there is no rule that they should all match. In fact, we would be a very bland society if that were the case.

And while I might not agree with them, they do have a right to hold to their values, and take the consequences. Just as we all do.

Completely agree.
Everybody has freedom of choice.

(17-11-2021, 08:02 AM)crafters_corner Wrote: I simply can't agree with those of you, who are talking about 'freedom of choice' as a good enough reason to not be vaxxed.

We are entitled to our personal preferences and choices but only if they do not betray the human rights of others. We are not entitled to being more worthy of our human value than another human being. ... Your freedom of choice (or mine) does not trump the human rights of another. It can be no other way in a civil society.

(17-11-2021, 08:29 AM)king1 Wrote:

(17-11-2021, 07:37 AM)nzoomed Wrote: Completely agree.
Everybody has freedom of choice.

as long as they are prepared to accept the consequences of those choices - the problem is antivaxxers aren't

(17-11-2021, 10:40 AM)Magoo Wrote: in the words of the inimitable Mr Spock (and his last?)

'the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few'

(17-11-2021, 10:31 AM)Oh_hunnihunni Wrote: Who are any of us to judge another human being? It isn't against the law not to be vaccinated, and that choice comes with serious negative consequences. Anyone making that choice may well be a complete idiot, and all the other rude words, but it is still their legal choice.

Just as it is my choice to take reasonable measures to avoid all and any contact with them.

(17-11-2021, 11:23 AM)crafters_corner Wrote:

(17-11-2021, 10:31 AM)Oh_hunnihunni Wrote: Who are any of us to judge another human being? It isn't against the law not to be vaccinated, and that choice comes with serious negative consequences. Anyone making that choice may well be a complete idiot, and all the other rude words, but it is still their legal choice.

Just as it is my choice to take reasonable measures to avoid all and any contact with them.

I would never call it judging, those who refuse to be vaccinated. And nor do I think it's a legal issue. For me, it's more of a moral issue. It's about respecting our fellow humans.

As human beings, we process information based on what we already think and typically we tend to fit that information to where it matches what we are already seeing because that takes a lot less brainpower, takes a lot less effort, and it doesn't make us feel bad for being wrong.

I often wonder if the resistance is because there's no easy way out. It's hard to accept a fact that means you're going to have to significantly change your life. That's my feeling more than anything, it's not really anything about the quality of the science, it's just that the science is presenting an uncomfortable result.

(16-11-2021, 07:08 PM)crafters_corner Wrote: What gets me the most, is the teachers etc, who have now left their jobs, because they are anti vax.

What the hell happened to being a teacher because you love children, because you want to impart your wise knowledge onto them, that you want to teach them about responsibilities, or whatever it is that took them into these professions.

That they are prepared to walk away from these kids, prepared to walk away from their chosen profession, and prepared to walk away from their steady incomes, all because of their own selfish reasons. It's beyond me.

(17-11-2021, 11:11 AM)Kay2021 Wrote:

(17-11-2021, 08:29 AM)king1 Wrote: as long as they are prepared to accept the consequences of those choices - the problem is antivaxxers aren't

What do you mean when you use the word antivaxxer?  What behaviours or opinions tell you someone is an antivaxxer?

(17-11-2021, 12:14 PM)nzoomed Wrote:

(17-11-2021, 11:23 AM)crafters_corner Wrote: I would never call it judging, those who refuse to be vaccinated. And nor do I think it's a legal issue. For me, it's more of a moral issue. It's about respecting our fellow humans.

As human beings, we process information based on what we already think and typically we tend to fit that information to where it matches what we are already seeing because that takes a lot less brainpower, takes a lot less effort, and it doesn't make us feel bad for being wrong.

I often wonder if the resistance is because there's no easy way out. It's hard to accept a fact that means you're going to have to significantly change your life. That's my feeling more than anything, it's not really anything about the quality of the science, it's just that the science is presenting an uncomfortable result.

The issue is putting everyone into the same basket who refuse the jab.
Some have genuine fears only over pfizer, while others are 100% antivax.
Then you have those who have had bad experiences with vaccines I'm the past and are too scared to have the shot.
I personally know someone in this situation and even his doctor has said not to risk it and has been written a letter but still applying for a formal exemption.