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+--- Thread: What do we do? (/showthread.php?tid=1678)
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RE: What do we do? - SueDonim - 23-11-2022
(23-11-2022, 02:28 PM)Lilith7 Wrote: Defensive driving courses for all those trying for their license seems a sensible idea.
However - humans are never going to stop using drugs, whether that's alcohol or some other illegal drug. Our species has been altering our consciousness since at least our cave dwelling days in one way or another, usually involving drugs & that isn't likely to change.
And I agree with Praktica - better, affordable public transport, making cycling safer & driving more expensive would go a long way towards improving things.
You are right that the human animal seems to have a predisposition to mind-altering substances, but by now we should have enough awareness and are supposedly intelligent enough to realise the damage it causes and not do it. If only because of the direct expense.
The problem with making motoring more expensive is that it disadvantages those who need to drive and becomes an unfair burden on those who can least afford it. I fully agree that public transport should be better (and should be free!) but it will always be inefficient and can never be everything to everyone.
RE: What do we do? - harm_less - 23-11-2022
(23-11-2022, 05:30 PM)SueDonim Wrote:Taking responsibility for one's actions, particularly when there is a delayed correlation, is increasingly at odds with our instant gratification seeking lifestyle. Fast food, Pay-wave style payments, internet streamed music and video content, social media platforms, online shopping (with rapid delivery), and synthetic pharmaceuticals to sculpt your present state of mind. Also worth noting that stimulants seemed to have become the drugs of choice of late rather than the 'old school' botanical relaxant style choices of a few decades back.(23-11-2022, 02:28 PM)Lilith7 Wrote: Defensive driving courses for all those trying for their license seems a sensible idea.
However - humans are never going to stop using drugs, whether that's alcohol or some other illegal drug. Our species has been altering our consciousness since at least our cave dwelling days in one way or another, usually involving drugs & that isn't likely to change.
And I agree with Praktica - better, affordable public transport, making cycling safer & driving more expensive would go a long way towards improving things.
You are right that the human animal seems to have a predisposition to mind-altering substances, but by now we should have enough awareness and are supposedly intelligent enough to realise the damage it causes and not do it. If only because of the direct expense.
The problem with making motoring more expensive is that it disadvantages those who need to drive and becomes an unfair burden on those who can least afford it. I fully agree that public transport should be better (and should be free!) but it will always be inefficient and can never be everything to everyone.
Agree with the comments relating motoring to expense. Although the move towards electrically powered mobility will significantly reduce the cost of personal transportation over the coming decades (especially as EV prices continue to drop), though the increasing trend in the younger generation towards shunning personal vehicle ownership and use will play a major part in how much influence this demographic will influence road mortality over that time.
RE: What do we do? - Lilith7 - 23-11-2022
(23-11-2022, 06:00 PM)harm_less Wrote:(23-11-2022, 05:30 PM)SueDonim Wrote: You are right that the human animal seems to have a predisposition to mind-altering substances, but by now we should have enough awareness and are supposedly intelligent enough to realise the damage it causes and not do it. If only because of the direct expense.Taking responsibility for one's actions, particularly when there is a delayed correlation, is increasingly at odds with our instant gratification seeking lifestyle. Fast food, Pay-wave style payments, internet streamed music and video content, social media platforms, online shopping (with rapid delivery), and synthetic pharmaceuticals to sculpt your present state of mind. Also worth noting that stimulants seemed to have become the drugs of choice of late rather than the 'old school' botanical relaxant style choices of a few decades back.
The problem with making motoring more expensive is that it disadvantages those who need to drive and becomes an unfair burden on those who can least afford it. I fully agree that public transport should be better (and should be free!) but it will always be inefficient and can never be everything to everyone.
Agree with the comments relating motoring to expense. Although the move towards electrically powered mobility will significantly reduce the cost of personal transportation over the coming decades (especially as EV prices continue to drop), though the increasing trend in the younger generation towards shunning personal vehicle ownership and use will play a major part in how much influence this demographic will influence road mortality over that time.
People do drugs because it makes them feel good. The person struggling to survive on a low income who needs a break however short, from a miserable existence, the bloke having a few drinks after work, the daft teenagers taking risks with dodgy drugs, the poor sod hooked on something even worse - they run the risk presumably by telling themselves that 'it won't happen to them'. Exactly as anyone taking a risk or committing a crime does.
Taking responsibility for our actions isn't something that everyone seems capable of doing, sadly.
Perhaps we need to come up with some alternative to cars, though what that could be I don't know. But I do know that we're an endlessly inventive species so someone somewhere may someday do exactly that & invent a viable alternative to cars.
RE: What do we do? - king1 - 23-11-2022
Ok this one might solve a couple of problems - reduce traffic on roads, reduce costs of road maintenance, reduce number and cost of accidents, emissions, exercise for the population etc
Essentially ban ownership of private motor vehicles in favour of a government mandated fleet of drivers (or self driving cars when perfected) in the same way we have professional drivers for Taxis, Uber(?) etc  Everyone else will simple hail a ride when they need to go anywhere...
These select few will have licenses which are much more difficult to acquire, requiring a  commitment to 3 months (say) of full time training involving practical and theory, study of safety, accidents etc  Essentially they will be professional drivers earning a living from the job.  Vehicles will be registered to the registered drivers...
Anyone who wants the freedom of driving themselves will need to commit to the above training.  Essentially driving must become a profession that is much harder to get into...  
Downsides...
Kills the car industry
Police will have nothing to do...
Everyone will be late everywhere
Public transport will need to keep up
Won't be popular
probably plenty more...
EDIT: there might be a minor issue with personal freedoms being trampled over I guess
RE: What do we do? - Olive - 23-11-2022
Another downside: Rural and provincial townships would be depopulated. Imagine needing to hail a ride in Huntly or Port Chalmers. Without gigantic government subsidies public transport won't work in small towns.
I live in a small rural town and much as I would love to use public transport (and wouldn't mind paying a fair price) I wrestle with myself over every decision to travel because it always boils down to a choice between walking or driving or staying at home . There are no other options.
RE: What do we do? - Praktica - 24-11-2022
(23-11-2022, 08:28 PM)Olive Wrote: Another  downside:  Rural and provincial townships would be depopulated.  Imagine needing to hail a ride in  Huntly or Port Chalmers.    Without gigantic government subsidies public transport won't work in small towns.
I live in a small rural town and much as I would love to use public transport (and wouldn't mind paying a fair price) I wrestle with myself over every decision to travel because it always boils down to a choice between walking or driving or staying at home .  There are no other options.
In my lifetime, Port Chalmers had frequent commuter trains to Dunedin, and its own shopping centre, so that trips to town could be infrequent. There's no reason why this shouldn't be the case again.
RE: What do we do? - Oldfellah - 24-11-2022
I suppose one of the next options would be to put tamper proof speed limiter in cars so they can only go at a certain speed (lets hope no government thinks of that)
RE: What do we do? - Lilith7 - 24-11-2022
See - endlessly inventive ideas! And that's just us in here...
RE: What do we do? - king1 - 24-11-2022
car computers required to record all travel info, roads, speed etc and automatic upload to Big Bro Government
RE: What do we do? - SueDonim - 24-11-2022
(24-11-2022, 10:25 AM)Oldfellah Wrote: I suppose one of the next options would be to put tamper proof speed limiter in cars so they can only go at a certain speed (lets hope no government thinks of that)
You are assuming that speed is the biggest problem. I think it is an important problem but not as important as drink/drugs/inattention - whihc can all lead to unintentional speeding. Thinking your suggestion through though, it's probably already nearly there. We have cars that know where the edge of the road is and when linked to gps know what speed you are supposed to be doing, so a limiter added in is probably not difficult.
(23-11-2022, 10:46 AM)Lilith7 Wrote: The state of the roads might be improved if we were to revive rail for transporting goods & perhaps legalise lighter loads for trucks. That, & constant repairs.
I always thought that the deregulation in the 80s was really dumb, but now that we have a whole road transport industry set up it would be very difficult to go back. We would need to compensate all the companies that now rely on road transport. And we have to remember that the larger trucks reduce the number of actual vehicles on the road. Sure they are heavier and cause more wear and tear, but they pay their way in RUCs. The biggest problem is that the taxes collected aren't spent fairly. The roads get "maintained" to a very low standard and the traffic then lifts the surface and we get into the endless circle of pot holes, etc. If the roads were built and maintained properly then the trucks wouldn't have such an impact.
If we put everything back on to rail, we would also have huge holdups at every level crossing waiting for the trains to go through.
Public transport is great for some types of travel but totally inefficient and impractical for a lot. I just did the weekly shopping. A boot full of groceries and other purchases done in the same trip. How would you carry it all home on a bus? Especially when doing it by bus involves changing buses. The 16 minute drive becomes 3 buses and one hour each way with a few hundred metres of walking. The fares are more than fuel for the car.
RE: What do we do? - Lilith7 - 24-11-2022
Agree, groceries on a bus are difficult, particularly so for anyone who lives some distance from a bus stop.
I bring mine home on a bike which has a carrier with container, a basket & pannier bags & find I can manage reasonably well though occasionally need another trip when dealing with heavier, bulky stuff.
But of course that won't work for everyone; perhaps what's needed are a variety of different ways, including some of what's been suggested in this thread.
RE: What do we do? - Oldfellah - 24-11-2022
In the mid 70s I used to work on the railways, passenger trains up and down the country, freight trains galore, not a lot of heavy trucks on the roads causing havoc and chewing up the roads creating potholes etc. Not saying its all the trucks fault but when I started with rail there were at least 40,000 people working and when I left there were just over 4000 so the balance of freight had to go somewhere and that somewhere is on our roads.
RE: What do we do? - Lilith7 - 24-11-2022
(24-11-2022, 02:24 PM)Oldfellah Wrote: In the mid 70s I used to work on the railways, passenger trains up and down the country, freight trains galore, not a lot of heavy trucks on the roads causing havoc and chewing up the roads creating potholes etc. Not saying its all the trucks fault but when I started with rail there were at least 40,000 people working and when I left there were just over 4000 so the balance of freight had to go somewhere and that somewhere is on our roads.
I don't remember there being as many bloody pot holes on roads back then either. No idea what they use to repair them these days, but it doesn't seem to last as long; there was a big one locally this time last year & I was sorely tempted to put a small Xmas tree - with lights - in it.
Perhaps we all need an ELF. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGDSkFQEOjo
RE: What do we do? - Zurdo - 24-11-2022
(24-11-2022, 02:24 PM)Oldfellah Wrote: In the mid 70s I used to work on the railways, passenger trains up and down the country, freight trains galore, not a lot of heavy trucks on the roads causing havoc and chewing up the roads creating potholes etc. Not saying its all the trucks fault but when I started with rail there were at least 40,000 people working and when I left there were just over 4000 so the balance of freight had to go somewhere and that somewhere is on our roads.
Talking to an uncle at his 80th last weekend - he said when he was young, he had a choice of 5 trains to take him to Auckland, probably from Hamilton where his parents lived. Now he has one, and before Te Huia, none. I remember going to the train station to pick up relatives.
RE: What do we do? - Lilith7 - 24-11-2022
There used to be a train here from CHCH to Lyttelton for years & it was really useful, especially before the road tunnel was built.
RE: What do we do? - harm_less - 24-11-2022
(24-11-2022, 02:33 PM)Lilith7 Wrote:The substandard repair of potholes is only half the story. Raising the HGV limit to 50T has really cranked up the damage being done to our roads and not just pavement failure but geological structures well below (and above) the road surface due to the percussive forces being generated by that extra weight deep into the basement layers. I travel SH3 to the north of Taranaki frequently enough to see the subsidence that is increasingly happening through Mt Messenger, the Awakino Gorge and Mahoenui Hills, often tens of metres below road level and extemely expensive to rectify in many cases. A bit of pothole mix is far from what is required there!(24-11-2022, 02:24 PM)Oldfellah Wrote: In the mid 70s I used to work on the railways, passenger trains up and down the country, freight trains galore, not a lot of heavy trucks on the roads causing havoc and chewing up the roads creating potholes etc. Not saying its all the trucks fault but when I started with rail there were at least 40,000 people working and when I left there were just over 4000 so the balance of freight had to go somewhere and that somewhere is on our roads.
I don't remember there being as many bloody pot holes on roads back then either. No idea what they use to repair them these days, but it doesn't seem to last as long; there was a big one locally this time last year & I was sorely tempted to put a small Xmas tree - with lights - in it.
Perhaps we all need an ELF. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGDSkFQEOjo
RE: What do we do? - Lilith7 - 25-11-2022
(24-11-2022, 07:00 PM)harm_less Wrote:(24-11-2022, 02:33 PM)Lilith7 Wrote: I don't remember there being as many bloody pot holes on roads back then either. No idea what they use to repair them these days, but it doesn't seem to last as long; there was a big one locally this time last year & I was sorely tempted to put a small Xmas tree - with lights - in it.The substandard repair of potholes is only half the story. Raising the HGV limit to 50T has really cranked up the damage being done to our roads and not just pavement failure but geological structures well below (and above) the road surface due to the percussive forces being generated by that extra weight deep into the basement layers. I travel SH3 to the north of Taranaki frequently enough to see the subsidence that is increasingly happening through Mt Messenger, the Awakino Gorge and Mahoenui Hills, often tens of metres below road level and extemely expensive to rectify in many cases. A bit of pothole mix is far from what is required there!
Perhaps we all need an ELF. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGDSkFQEOjo
I think that raising the limit has done damage if what you say is right, & if we were to change that tomorrow that damage would take time to repair if that's possible.
Isn't it odd, that for a species which can be brilliant & inventive, we can also be idiots sometimes.