+- Too Many Message Boards (http://tmmb.mywire.org)
+-- Forum: General Topics (http://tmmb.mywire.org/forumdisplay.php?fid=5)
+--- Forum: Opinion and Politics (http://tmmb.mywire.org/forumdisplay.php?fid=75)
+--- Thread: "New" policy from Luxon, National (/showthread.php?tid=1488)
Pages:
1
2
RE: "New" policy from Luxon, National - Wainuiguy - 08-08-2022
(08-08-2022, 04:42 PM)Praktica Wrote: Wainuiguy obviously wants the beatings to continue until the complaining stops!Feel free to continue to comment but the fact is both the number of those on the benefit have gone up and the numbers of those facing sanctions have significantly reduced.  This means your suggestion is unlikely to be true.
RE: "New" policy from Luxon, National - Lilith7 - 09-08-2022
I'm fairly sure that no one here needs your permission to comment.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/08/national-s-benefit-sanctions-will-result-in-either-crime-or-hungry-people-warns-welfare-advocate.html?cid=soc4%3Anewshubfb&fbclid=IwAR2664bF5Mxl-y930bg7P5TsFnbu1v5xMdA5Y36z-bTdX_KvuO3USjqRED0
"A welfare advocate says National's proposed overhaul of the Jobseeker benefit should focus on supporting mental health needs instead of rushing people into work.
But the proposed policy hasn't gone down well with beneficiary advocate Karen Pattie, who said it is a recipe for failure.
"The only outcome from sanctions is either crime or hungry people," she said.
The latest figures show there are about 13,000 18 to 24-year-olds who've been receiving the Jobseeker benefit for more than a year. Nearly 8000 of those are work-ready and the other 5500 are receiving it for health or disability reasons.
Pattie said the focus should be on supporting mental health needs instead of rushing people into work.
"That's what needs to be addressed to enable these young people to feel confident enough to go back into a job," she said."
RE: "New" policy from Luxon, National - Wainuiguy - 10-08-2022
(09-08-2022, 01:51 PM)Lilith7 Wrote: I'm fairly sure that no one here needs your permission to comment.So 8000 of them should be actively seeking work.  When you are unemployed you have just 1 job - and that is get employed.  They should be actively managed to do this.  In this case will actually be rewarded for gwtting a job and for staying employed.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/08/national-s-benefit-sanctions-will-result-in-either-crime-or-hungry-people-warns-welfare-advocate.html?cid=soc4%3Anewshubfb&fbclid=IwAR2664bF5Mxl-y930bg7P5TsFnbu1v5xMdA5Y36z-bTdX_KvuO3USjqRED0
"A welfare advocate says National's proposed overhaul of the Jobseeker benefit should focus on supporting mental health needs instead of rushing people into work.
But the proposed policy hasn't gone down well with beneficiary advocate Karen Pattie, who said it is a recipe for failure.
"The only outcome from sanctions is either crime or hungry people," she said.
The latest figures show there are about 13,000 18 to 24-year-olds who've been receiving the Jobseeker benefit for more than a year. Nearly 8000 of those are work-ready and the other 5500 are receiving it for health or disability reasons.
Pattie said the focus should be on supporting mental health needs instead of rushing people into work.
"That's what needs to be addressed to enable these young people to feel confident enough to go back into a job," she said."
RE: "New" policy from Luxon, National - Lilith7 - 10-08-2022
(10-08-2022, 11:47 AM)Wainuiguy Wrote:(09-08-2022, 01:51 PM)Lilith7 Wrote: I'm fairly sure that no one here needs your permission to comment.So 8000 of them should be actively seeking work.  When you are unemployed you have just 1 job - and that is get employed.  They should be actively managed to do this.  In this case will actually be rewarded for gwtting a job and for staying employed.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/08/national-s-benefit-sanctions-will-result-in-either-crime-or-hungry-people-warns-welfare-advocate.html?cid=soc4%3Anewshubfb&fbclid=IwAR2664bF5Mxl-y930bg7P5TsFnbu1v5xMdA5Y36z-bTdX_KvuO3USjqRED0
"A welfare advocate says National's proposed overhaul of the Jobseeker benefit should focus on supporting mental health needs instead of rushing people into work.
But the proposed policy hasn't gone down well with beneficiary advocate Karen Pattie, who said it is a recipe for failure.
"The only outcome from sanctions is either crime or hungry people," she said.
The latest figures show there are about 13,000 18 to 24-year-olds who've been receiving the Jobseeker benefit for more than a year. Nearly 8000 of those are work-ready and the other 5500 are receiving it for health or disability reasons.
Pattie said the focus should be on supporting mental health needs instead of rushing people into work.
"That's what needs to be addressed to enable these young people to feel confident enough to go back into a job," she said."
"Pattie said the focus should be on supporting mental health needs instead of rushing people into work.
"That's what needs to be addressed to enable these young people to feel confident enough to go back into a job," she said."
RE: "New" policy from Luxon, National - king1 - 10-08-2022
(10-08-2022, 11:47 AM)Wainuiguy Wrote:if "actively managed" includes dealing with any mental health issues before pulling the rug out from under people, then yes, that works.  But you don't help people, who may be already struggling emotionally, by coming down heavy handed on them - all it does is lead to deeper and darker thought processes...  Not everyone is blessed with a positive mental attitude.(09-08-2022, 01:51 PM)Lilith7 Wrote: I'm fairly sure that no one here needs your permission to comment.So 8000 of them should be actively seeking work.  When you are unemployed you have just 1 job - and that is get employed.  They should be actively managed to do this.  In this case will actually be rewarded for gwtting a job and for staying employed.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/08/national-s-benefit-sanctions-will-result-in-either-crime-or-hungry-people-warns-welfare-advocate.html?cid=soc4%3Anewshubfb&fbclid=IwAR2664bF5Mxl-y930bg7P5TsFnbu1v5xMdA5Y36z-bTdX_KvuO3USjqRED0
"A welfare advocate says National's proposed overhaul of the Jobseeker benefit should focus on supporting mental health needs instead of rushing people into work.
But the proposed policy hasn't gone down well with beneficiary advocate Karen Pattie, who said it is a recipe for failure.
"The only outcome from sanctions is either crime or hungry people," she said.
The latest figures show there are about 13,000 18 to 24-year-olds who've been receiving the Jobseeker benefit for more than a year. Nearly 8000 of those are work-ready and the other 5500 are receiving it for health or disability reasons.
Pattie said the focus should be on supporting mental health needs instead of rushing people into work.
"That's what needs to be addressed to enable these young people to feel confident enough to go back into a job," she said."
RE: "New" policy from Luxon, National - Wainuiguy - 10-08-2022
(10-08-2022, 11:58 AM)king1 Wrote:Of course.  But sitting back and doing nothing for a large number of clients isn't helping them.  The time to focus on people is the first 3 or 4 months afterbtgey become unemllyed because that is the time they are most motivated.  What we have presently is clients being left for up to 12 months before any management is started.  By then their mental state is low.(10-08-2022, 11:47 AM)Wainuiguy Wrote: So 8000 of them should be actively seeking work.  When you are unemployed you have just 1 job - and that is get employed.  They should be actively managed to do this.  In this case will actually be rewarded for gwtting a job and for staying employed.if "actively managed" includes dealing with any mental health issues before pulling the rug out from under people, then yes, that works.  But you don't help people, who may be already struggling emotionally, by coming down heavy handed on them - all it does is lead to deeper and darker thought processes...  Not everyone is blessed with a positive mental attitude.
RE: "New" policy from Luxon, National - king1 - 10-08-2022
(10-08-2022, 12:31 PM)Wainuiguy Wrote:If you consider that an economy can never have zero unemployment and NZ currently has the lowest unemployment in 20 years or so, it stands to reason that those still remaining on the jobseeker benefit will be those that have other factors affecting their ability to work.(10-08-2022, 11:58 AM)king1 Wrote: if "actively managed" includes dealing with any mental health issues before pulling the rug out from under people, then yes, that works.  But you don't help people, who may be already struggling emotionally, by coming down heavy handed on them - all it does is lead to deeper and darker thought processes...  Not everyone is blessed with a positive mental attitude.Of course.  But sitting back and doing nothing for a large number of clients isn't helping them.  The time to focus on people is the first 3 or 4 months afterbtgey become unemllyed because that is the time they are most motivated.  What we have presently is clients being left for up to 12 months before any management is started.  By then their mental state is low.
RE: "New" policy from Luxon, National - Lilith7 - 10-08-2022
(10-08-2022, 01:26 PM)king1 Wrote:That seems the most likely explanation, but it just hasn't got quite the same ring to it as 'we're cracking down on those lazy people who don't want to work', has it. Doesn't really portray the Nats as  being ever so tough in tackling those dreadful 'bene bludgers' they so love to trot out every election.(10-08-2022, 12:31 PM)Wainuiguy Wrote: Of course.  But sitting back and doing nothing for a large number of clients isn't helping them.  The time to focus on people is the first 3 or 4 months afterbtgey become unemllyed because that is the time they are most motivated.  What we have presently is clients being left for up to 12 months before any management is started.  By then their mental state is low.If you consider that an economy can never have zero unemployment and NZ currently has the lowest unemployment in 20 years or so, it stands to reason that those still remaining on the jobseeker benefit will be those that have other factors affecting their ability to work.
RE: "New" policy from Luxon, National - Wainuiguy - 10-08-2022
(10-08-2022, 01:26 PM)king1 Wrote:Except this policy specifically targets young unemployed which is sitting around 9%.  Also those on job seeker support has increased by 50000 people.  This is the disconnect between the official unemployment rate and the number of people on the job seekers benefit.(10-08-2022, 12:31 PM)Wainuiguy Wrote: Of course.  But sitting back and doing nothing for a large number of clients isn't helping them.  The time to focus on people is the first 3 or 4 months afterbtgey become unemllyed because that is the time they are most motivated.  What we have presently is clients being left for up to 12 months before any management is started.  By then their mental state is low.If you consider that an economy can never have zero unemployment and NZ currently has the lowest unemployment in 20 years or so, it stands to reason that those still remaining on the jobseeker benefit will be those that have other factors affecting their ability to work.
RE: "New" policy from Luxon, National - Lilith7 - 10-08-2022
IF the Nats had said we're going to set up free courses for young people on unemployment to help them have a better chance of getting a job, I doubt anyone would have a problem with that.
Instead they go for the tired old ' the lazy unemployed kids don't want to work & we're going to punish them' tactic which must be wearing pretty thing even with their supporters, given the number of times they've used it.
RE: "New" policy from Luxon, National - Wainuiguy - 12-08-2022
(10-08-2022, 07:16 PM)Lilith7 Wrote: IF the Nats had said we're going to set up free courses for young people on unemployment to help them have a better chance of getting a job, I doubt anyone would have a problem with that.Those will remain available too - they arent getting rid of them.  You cant just have carrots or just sticks- their combination of both is a measured approach.
Instead they go for the tired old ' the lazy unemployed kids don't want to work & we're going to punish them' tactic which must be wearing pretty thing even with their supporters, given the number of times they've used it.
RE: "New" policy from Luxon, National - king1 - 12-08-2022
National wants a BIGGER stick...
RE: "New" policy from Luxon, National - Lilith7 - 12-08-2022
(12-08-2022, 01:31 PM)king1 Wrote: National wants a BIGGER stick...Yep, its just the same old, same old. They trot it out every election, claiming how 'tough' they're going to be on the undeserving poor who according to their version, sit about all day, reclining on cushions while everyone else (but especially those hard working wealthy 
) are slaving away to keep them in apparent luxury.Their problem is that its just a bit difficult to believe in their version of the ever so virtuous wealthy people when reality (& history) shows otherwise.
I'm not sure why there are no longer such a wide variety of free courses in many different subjects available to those on benefits, but there are far fewer than there were. Perhaps they gave too much of an advantage to beneficiaries.
There's been some reaction to Luxon & his 'free ride' comments. It hasn't gone down too well with those he's happy to accuse.
https://www.1news.co.nz/2022/08/11/young-nzers-on-jobseeker-benefit-react-to-luxons-free-ride/
"Daisy says the reason many of these young people are living on Jobseeker Support is because itÔÇÖs often the only support available for people with debilitating mental and physical illnesses or disabilities.
When DaisyÔÇÖs sick leave quickly ran out, she realised being on a Jobseeker benefit was her only option.
She says the disability allowance of $70 a week she was entitled to was not enough to live on.
ÔÇ£I was really fortunate the company I worked for supported me throughout the whole thing and let me keep working 10-15 hours a week when I was well enough. But you obviously canÔÇÖt survive on this, so if I wasnÔÇÖt able to go on Jobseeker, I donÔÇÖt know what would have happened.ÔÇØ
She says calling the benefit ÔÇÿJobseekerÔÇÖ does not encapsulate the varied experiences of the people who rely on it.
ÔÇ£I was in the hospital three, four times a week getting constant blood tests to make sure my kidneys werenÔÇÖt rejecting treatment. But I was still getting phone calls from a woman telling me there was a job seminar I should go to.
ÔÇ£I would tell them repeatedly ÔÇÿIÔÇÖve got a job, I am not unemployed, but Jobseeker was the only support that could work for me.ÔÇÖÔÇØ