(18-01-2022, 01:03 PM)C_T_Russell Wrote: What's this even got to do with vaccination?
Its an issue that presents us with anything, vaccination is just one aspect.
If someone gets presented with the choice to get vaxxed or loose their job, how is that a freedom?
You dont have a choice, because most people cant afford to loose their job and have mortgages to pay! Ive never seen anything so ridiculous in my whole life and people cant see through this BS and rules and restrictions that make absolutely no sense.

Ive heard about someone who is an accountant and lost hos job for not getting the vax, but he is someone who works from home and is not in contact with anyone! WTF?
These "rules" are pure punishment for anyone who is not stepping in line with what Jacinda wants out of you, nothing about this is to protect health, or else this person should have been allowed to keep his job.

Freedom belongs to YOU, no one can take that away from you or give you a choice to keep it. Pure and simple.

This feels so much like China's social credit system to me. Ive already spoken to people that are more than happy to have a chip implanted into their hand to hold their vaccine records, etc.
That could be next, if the govt can convince force 90% of the population to have a shot in their arm, then im sure it would not be hard to ask people to sign up for chip implants either.
I already saw a news story about this tech overseas, so it is something being explored.
I myself never would have thought once that anything like this could potentially happen, but all it takes is another pandemic and we could see such a thing implemented.

Im not saying its ever going to happen, but the potential is definitely there, and i can say 100% that i would refuse any such chip implant should anything like that be introduced and I hope others agree, regardless of their views on the vaccine.

(19-01-2022, 08:12 AM)Oh_hunnihunni Wrote: Why do people think Jacinda makes all the rules? She is the PM, but she represents a government made up of democratically elected local MPs, some of whom then step up to Caucus roles and they decide the rules based on the expert opinion and advice of others.

It isn't a one man show. Ffs, stop pretending it is.

(19-01-2022, 08:12 AM)Oh_hunnihunni Wrote: Why do people think Jacinda makes all the rules? She is the PM, but she represents a government made up of democratically elected local MPs, some of whom then step up to Caucus roles and they decide the rules based on the expert opinion and advice of others.

It isn't a one man show. Ffs, stop pretending it is.

(19-01-2022, 08:12 AM)Oh_hunnihunni Wrote: Why do people think Jacinda makes all the rules? She is the PM, but she represents a government made up of democratically elected local MPs, some of whom then step up to Caucus roles and they decide the rules based on the expert opinion and advice of others.

It isn't a one man show. Ffs, stop pretending it is.

(19-01-2022, 08:42 AM)Magoo Wrote:

(19-01-2022, 08:12 AM)Oh_hunnihunni Wrote: Why do people think Jacinda makes all the rules? She is the PM, but she represents a government made up of democratically elected local MPs, some of whom then step up to Caucus roles and they decide the rules based on the expert opinion and advice of others.

It isn't a one man show. Ffs, stop pretending it is.

from what im lead to believe, and i might be wrong, is that jacinda is single handedly responsible for everything from climate change to Covid.
She also has a communist/socialist agenda to see us all enslaved.
pre covid they called her 'taxcinda'. this was due to lack of anything else to crucify her. covid has been a blessing for her detractors.

(19-01-2022, 08:12 AM)Oh_hunnihunni Wrote: Why do people think Jacinda makes all the rules? She is the PM, but she represents a government made up of democratically elected local MPs, some of whom then step up to Caucus roles and they decide the rules based on the expert opinion and advice of others.

It isn't a one man show. Ffs, stop pretending it is.

(19-01-2022, 09:08 AM)Oh_hunnihunni Wrote: Can't help wondering just how many of these anti everythings actually vote. Or do they tell themselves there's no point?

(19-01-2022, 09:38 AM)SueDonim Wrote:

(19-01-2022, 08:12 AM)Oh_hunnihunni Wrote: Why do people think Jacinda makes all the rules? She is the PM, but she represents a government made up of democratically elected local MPs, some of whom then step up to Caucus roles and they decide the rules based on the expert opinion and advice of others.

It isn't a one man show. Ffs, stop pretending it is.

Exactly. For covid it has worked very well. The transparency provided shows that all the different perspectives are considered and a course of action decided, which is why we have done so well during the pandemic.

The big problem we have though is that for everything else this has not happened. Many diverse law changes have been made after expert advice and submissions from people affected who said "Don't" but they "Did" anyway. Current examples include the new mortgage rules, which, like many other law changes in the past, have more negative impact on the "innocent" than on the people they were targeted at. It's heartbreaking to see news items where people who can afford the mortgage they require are turned down for trivial reasons.

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(19-01-2022, 09:08 AM)Oh_hunnihunni Wrote: Can't help wondering just how many of these anti everythings actually vote. Or do they tell themselves there's no point?

I wonder that too, although I also see the side that when you have spent time putting together the submissions and arguments at the appropriate time, also knowing that many other people are doing the same, and the proposed changes to [whatever] just go through anyway, you become disillusioned and give up. When I was young I thought that democracy gave me a voice. Now I realise that whatever is on the table is going to happen regardless of what those who actually know about it have to say. I've found the last couple of elections very difficult to decide how to vote so the next step is probably to give up altogether. Although personally I won't as I've always said that if you didn't vote you can't complain and I still believe that.

(19-01-2022, 09:55 AM)Magoo Wrote: vote or not, as long as i pay taxes i will reserve the right to comment on how it is spent.

(19-01-2022, 09:55 AM)Magoo Wrote:

(19-01-2022, 09:38 AM)SueDonim Wrote: Exactly. For covid it has worked very well. The transparency provided shows that all the different perspectives are considered and a course of action decided, which is why we have done so well during the pandemic.

The big problem we have though is that for everything else this has not happened. Many diverse law changes have been made after expert advice and submissions from people affected who said "Don't" but they "Did" anyway. Current examples include the new mortgage rules, which, like many other law changes in the past, have more negative impact on the "innocent" than on the people they were targeted at. It's heartbreaking to see news items where people who can afford the mortgage they require are turned down for trivial reasons.

---

I wonder that too, although I also see the side that when you have spent time putting together the submissions and arguments at the appropriate time, also knowing that many other people are doing the same, and the proposed changes to [whatever] just go through anyway, you become disillusioned and give up. When I was young I thought that democracy gave me a voice. Now I realise that whatever is on the table is going to happen regardless of what those who actually know about it have to say. I've found the last couple of elections very difficult to decide how to vote so the next step is probably to give up altogether. Although personally I won't as I've always said that if you didn't vote you can't complain and I still believe that.

vote or not, as long as i pay taxes i will reserve the right to comment on how it is spent.

(19-01-2022, 06:15 PM)Oh_hunnihunni Wrote:

(19-01-2022, 09:55 AM)Magoo Wrote: vote or not, as long as i pay taxes i will reserve the right to comment on how it is spent.

And how much government spend you accept?

I think it works both ways. We live in a community, we benefit from that. We therefore have civic responsibilities beyond paying the taxes due.

(18-01-2022, 01:03 PM)C_T_Russell Wrote:

(15-01-2022, 06:17 PM)Lilith7 Wrote: "One day we wont even be able to speak our minds. Not trying to shout conspiracy theories, but there is definitely something going on."


Utter bollocks. There is at present only ONE weapon against the virus, & that is vaccination.
If idiots refuse to get vaccinated without valid medical reasons, then those idiots are placing the rest of us  - including small children - at risk.
NO freedoms have been removed so those idiots have the right to not get the only treatment which could save their lives. That choice though doesn't mean they're free to infect other people, which is why they ought to have the commonsense to comprehend the risk their choice might cause others.

(15-01-2022, 08:11 PM)Magoo Wrote: sorry, my bad. i was thinking of my own freedoms.
ct was talking about the unvaxxed losing freedoms.
suck it up snowflake, they chose to restrict their freedoms,

What's this even got to do with vaccination?
Its an issue that presents us with anything, vaccination is just one aspect.
If someone gets presented with the choice to get vaxxed or loose their job, how is that a freedom?
You dont have a choice, because most people cant afford to loose their job and have mortgages to pay! Ive never seen anything so ridiculous in my whole life and people cant see through this BS and rules and restrictions that make absolutely no sense.

Ive heard about someone who is an accountant and lost hos job for not getting the vax, but he is someone who works from home and is not in contact with anyone! WTF?
These "rules" are pure punishment for anyone who is not stepping in line with what Jacinda wants out of you, nothing about this is to protect health, or else this person should have been allowed to keep his job.


Freedom belongs to YOU, no one can take that away from you or give you a choice to keep it. Pure and simple.

This feels so much like China's social credit system to me. Ive already spoken to people that are more than happy to have a chip implanted into their hand to hold their vaccine records, etc.
That could be next, if the govt can convince force 90% of the population to have a shot in their arm, then im sure it would not be hard to ask people to sign up for chip implants either.
I already saw a news story about this tech overseas, so it is something being explored.
I myself never would have thought once that anything like this could potentially happen, but all it takes is another pandemic and we could see such a thing implemented.

Im not saying its ever going to happen, but the potential is definitely there, and i can say 100% that i would refuse any such chip implant should anything like that be introduced and I hope others agree, regardless of their views on the vaccine.

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(18-01-2022, 08:42 AM)Olive Wrote: I agree.  An obvious example is Facebook, where everyone knows that the business model is selling our data but people still complain about getting targeted advertising.

The sooner we get away from google, facebook, twitter, etc the better. Bring on web 3.0