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+--- Thread: May as well forget scanning in (/showthread.php?tid=1124)
May as well forget scanning in - Wainuiguy - 12-02-2022
With numbers of cases now over 400 a day contact tracing breaks down and is virtually impossible.  The government has previously said that cases more than 200 a day strained their ability to trace people's movements.
RE: May as well forget scanning in - Magoo - 12-02-2022
not many places enforce it
RE: May as well forget scanning in - SueDonim - 12-02-2022
I had thought that the point of the QR codes scanning was the automation of contract tracing but somehow it seems not. It should just be automatic - when someone test positive, everyone who has been to the same place at the same time should just get an automated message. All the time consuming stuff is then the extra to cover those who don't scan.
So if the system is being used as it should, the extra numbers of cases should mean that there is no time for the manual tracing. But the Scanning system should still do it's job.
Does anyone know why this doesn't seem to be the case?
(I think the lack of enforcement is because it isn't required to enforced. Those who care will do it, and those who don't care will just give everyone a hard time as usual.)
RE: May as well forget scanning in - Magoo - 12-02-2022
they seem to be more concerned about seeing the vax passport.
RE: May as well forget scanning in - Oldfellah - 12-02-2022
Contact tracing may well break down over a certain number of cases but if you at least scan and you catch the virus surely the powers that be can ask you to look at your phone and tell them where you have been and on which date?
RE: May as well forget scanning in - Magoo - 12-02-2022
(12-02-2022, 12:25 PM)Oldfellah Wrote: Contact tracing may well break down over a certain number of cases but if you at least scan and you catch the virus surely the powers that be can ask you to look at your phone and tell them where you have been and on which date?yes.
listing places of interest and the times has been good too.
RE: May as well forget scanning in - Wainuiguy - 12-02-2022
(12-02-2022, 12:25 PM)Oldfellah Wrote: Contact tracing may well break down over a certain number of cases but if you at least scan and you catch the virus surely the powers that be can ask you to look at your phone and tell them where you have been and on which date?To do that they would require people to ask - that is the issue- they dont have enough.
(12-02-2022, 12:28 PM)Magoo Wrote:Which has been able to be done previously due to low daily numbers - that has changed in the last week.(12-02-2022, 12:25 PM)Oldfellah Wrote: Contact tracing may well break down over a certain number of cases but if you at least scan and you catch the virus surely the powers that be can ask you to look at your phone and tell them where you have been and on which date?yes.
listing places of interest and the times has been good too.
RE: May as well forget scanning in - king1 - 12-02-2022
(12-02-2022, 11:29 AM)Wainuiguy Wrote: With numbers of cases now over 400 a day contact tracing breaks down and is virtually impossible.  The government has previously said that cases more than 200 a day strained their ability to trace people's movements.record keeping is mandatory in most places, so scanning in is still absolutely necessary.  
https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/record-keeping-become-mandatory-most-events-and-businesses
How do you know that 400 a day makes it "virtually impossible" to contact trace? You have some inside info on that you would like to share?  That 200 number was thrown around very early in the outbreak, i'm quite sure they must have scaled up a bit by now...
RE: May as well forget scanning in - king1 - 12-02-2022
(12-02-2022, 12:04 PM)SueDonim Wrote: I had thought that the point of the QR codes scanning was the automation of contract tracing but somehow it seems not. It should just be automatic - when someone test positive, everyone who has been to the same place at the same time should just get an automated message. All the time consuming stuff is then the extra to cover those who don't scan.as far as i know the contact trace app doesn't actually share any data with anyone unless you tell it to.  It just collects the info until you are asked to share it with/by the contact tracer. 
So if the system is being used as it should, the extra numbers of cases should mean that there is no time for the manual tracing. But the Scanning system should still do it's job.
Does anyone know why this doesn't seem to be the case?
Personally, the next logical extension would be for it to submit all contact points automatically and do all the notifications automatically but I suspect the feeling is that a certain few might find that encroaches on their freedoms...
RE: May as well forget scanning in - SueDonim - 12-02-2022
(12-02-2022, 01:07 PM)king1 Wrote:(12-02-2022, 12:04 PM)SueDonim Wrote: I had thought that the point of the QR codes scanning was the automation of contract tracing but somehow it seems not. It should just be automatic - when someone test positive, everyone who has been to the same place at the same time should just get an automated message. All the time consuming stuff is then the extra to cover those who don't scan.as far as i know the contact trace app doesn't actually share any data with anyone unless you tell it to.  It just collects the info until you are asked to share it with/by the contact tracer. 
So if the system is being used as it should, the extra numbers of cases should mean that there is no time for the manual tracing. But the Scanning system should still do it's job.
Does anyone know why this doesn't seem to be the case?
Personally, the next logical extension would be for it to submit all contact points automatically and do all the notifications automatically but I suspect the feeling is that a certain few might find that encroaches on their freedoms...
I wouldn't worry about those who think it encroaches on the their freedoms. I like the freedom of the knowledge of how to be best kept safe. I know that the app doesn't give any individual the information of where you have been, but I did think that MoH could push out to let you know that you have been to a location of interest. If it doesn't it should.
RE: May as well forget scanning in - Wainuiguy - 12-02-2022
(12-02-2022, 12:57 PM)king1 Wrote:The 200 number is still being quoted in the media and no one in MOH has come out to say that is no longer correct.  Another 454 cases today says there is no way that they will be able to keep up up with tracing on a manual basis which is what they are doing.  Places of interest for the Hutt Valley with 12 cases hasn't been updated since 5th November. Wellington since 7th November.(12-02-2022, 11:29 AM)Wainuiguy Wrote: With numbers of cases now over 400 a day contact tracing breaks down and is virtually impossible.  The government has previously said that cases more than 200 a day strained their ability to trace people's movements.record keeping is mandatory in most places, so scanning in is still absolutely necessary.  
https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/record-keeping-become-mandatory-most-events-and-businesses
How do you know that 400 a day makes it "virtually impossible" to contact trace? You have some inside info on that you would like to share?  That 200 number was thrown around very early in the outbreak, i'm quite sure they must have scaled up a bit by now...
RE: May as well forget scanning in - king1 - 12-02-2022
(12-02-2022, 02:26 PM)Wainuiguy Wrote:so basically you have no idea what the current capacity is so you're guessing...(12-02-2022, 12:57 PM)king1 Wrote: record keeping is mandatory in most places, so scanning in is still absolutely necessary.  The 200 number is still being quoted in the media and no one in MOH has come out to say that is no longer correct.  
https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/record-keeping-become-mandatory-most-events-and-businesses
How do you know that 400 a day makes it "virtually impossible" to contact trace? You have some inside info on that you would like to share?  That 200 number was thrown around very early in the outbreak, i'm quite sure they must have scaled up a bit by now...
RE: May as well forget scanning in - Magoo - 12-02-2022
(12-02-2022, 02:44 PM)king1 Wrote:as are we all(12-02-2022, 02:26 PM)Wainuiguy Wrote: The 200 number is still being quoted in the media and no one in MOH has come out to say that is no longer correct.  so basically you have no idea what the current capacity is so you're guessing...
its not an exact science
RE: May as well forget scanning in - Wainuiguy - 12-02-2022
(12-02-2022, 02:44 PM)king1 Wrote:If I wasn't right wouldn't they say so?  So that isn't guessing if that is the information available.(12-02-2022, 02:26 PM)Wainuiguy Wrote: The 200 number is still being quoted in the media and no one in MOH has come out to say that is no longer correct.  so basically you have no idea what the current capacity is so you're guessing...
RE: May as well forget scanning in - king1 - 12-02-2022
(12-02-2022, 03:13 PM)Wainuiguy Wrote:the 200 is year and a half old information, not exactly guaranteed to be factual now, especially since we know from the news they have added many hundreds of staff to the contact tracing crew. (12-02-2022, 02:44 PM)king1 Wrote: so basically you have no idea what the current capacity is so you're guessing...If I wasn't right wouldn't they say so?  So that isn't guessing if that is the information available.
Your guessing at the current contract tracing capacity, especially assuming that contact tracing fails at 400, or any number for that matter - without any accurate data to support it...  This would probably be an example of cherry picking the evidence to suit your argument...
RE: May as well forget scanning in - Wainuiguy - 12-02-2022
(12-02-2022, 03:56 PM)king1 Wrote:And yet we have one of NZ main cities and Capital not having points of interest updated for almost a week and the Hutt Valley for longer.(12-02-2022, 03:13 PM)Wainuiguy Wrote: If I wasn't right wouldn't they say so?  So that isn't guessing if that is the information available.the 200 is year and a half old information, not exactly guaranteed to be factual now, especially since we know from the news they have added many hundreds of staff to the contact tracing crew. 
Your guessing at the current contract tracing capacity, especially assuming that contact tracing fails at 400, or any number for that matter - without any accurate data to support it...  This would probably be an example of cherry picking the evidence to suit your argument...
Again if the numbers are wrong why haven't they said so?  The press have used that 200 number recently yet  MOH, Hipkins or Bloomfield haven't come out and stated that was wrong.
A bit like saying they can do up to 58000 tests a day - great sound bite except they can't PROCESS that many, only about half and not in the long term.
RE: May as well forget scanning in - king1 - 12-02-2022
(12-02-2022, 04:33 PM)Wainuiguy Wrote:maybe you should ask them rather than making wild guesses and speculation, framed as facts?(12-02-2022, 03:56 PM)king1 Wrote: the 200 is year and a half old information, not exactly guaranteed to be factual now, especially since we know from the news they have added many hundreds of staff to the contact tracing crew. And yet we have one of NZ main cities and Capital not having points of interest updated for almost a week and the Hutt Valley for longer.
Your guessing at the current contract tracing capacity, especially assuming that contact tracing fails at 400, or any number for that matter - without any accurate data to support it...  This would probably be an example of cherry picking the evidence to suit your argument...
Again if the numbers are wrong why haven't they said so?  The press have used that 200 number recently yet  MOH, Hipkins or Bloomfield haven't come out and stated that was wrong.
A bit like saying they can do up to 58000 tests a day - great sound bite except they can't PROCESS that many, only about half and not in the long term.
RE: May as well forget scanning in - Wainuiguy - 12-02-2022
(12-02-2022, 05:00 PM)king1 Wrote:It isn't speculation- that has been reported and previously confirmed.(12-02-2022, 04:33 PM)Wainuiguy Wrote: And yet we have one of NZ main cities and Capital not having points of interest updated for almost a week and the Hutt Valley for longer.maybe you should ask them rather than making wild guesses and speculation, framed as facts?
Again if the numbers are wrong why haven't they said so?  The press have used that 200 number recently yet  MOH, Hipkins or Bloomfield haven't come out and stated that was wrong.
A bit like saying they can do up to 58000 tests a day - great sound bite except they can't PROCESS that many, only about half and not in the long term.
RE: May as well forget scanning in - king1 - 12-02-2022
(12-02-2022, 05:11 PM)Wainuiguy Wrote:well it would appear you are just plain wrong then?(12-02-2022, 05:00 PM)king1 Wrote: maybe you should ask them rather than making wild guesses and speculation, framed as facts?It isn't speculation- that has been reported and previously confirmed.
Quote:
- Increased our PCR testing capacity from a maximum of 39,000 tests a day to a baseline of 58,000 tests. Surge capacity is now 77,600 tests, which can be sustained for 7 days
https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/testing-improvements-see-new-zealand-well-prepared-omicron  
RE: May as well forget scanning in - Wainuiguy - 12-02-2022
(12-02-2022, 05:22 PM)king1 Wrote:Sorry missed the bit in that release that said about maximum contact tracing?  Can you point that out to me?(12-02-2022, 05:11 PM)Wainuiguy Wrote: It isn't speculation- that has been reported and previously confirmed.well it would appear you are just plain wrong then?
Quote:
- Increased our PCR testing capacity from a maximum of 39,000 tests a day to a baseline of 58,000 tests. Surge capacity is now 77,600 tests, which can be sustained for 7 days
https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/testing-improvements-see-new-zealand-well-prepared-omicron  
And pretty sure I said 58000?